PAC-16 REALIGNMENT
comments on PAC-16 BIG-12 were very insightful and provided a lot of different perspectives.
1-Most agreed Texas is a cancer on whatever conference they go to and should go independent. Solely an EGO thing.
2-The game of “chicken” has begun, with Missouri, Kansas, Oklahoma, and Baylor. I would prefer these four for the PAC-16 keeping the pairings Scott likes and gives us access to Texas. ND maybe?
3-On a side note for the golfers, the PAC16 would then have 2 of the top 5 collegiate golf courses in the country in its fold: Rawls Course at Texas Tech and Karsten at OkState. Look ‘em up — they are gems.
This is a chess game at a furious pace. Another point well made PAC-12 is now in the drivers seat waiting for applications to arrive.
Next one to go down and out things will happen fast. It's all about the blame game.
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A few things
No chance at Notre Dame…none…at all. There is little to no chance of Baylor and Mizzou, as Waco isn’t big enough and Mizzou wants in the B1G TEN. I imagine it will come down to Larry Scott seeing what type of extra money he can bilk out of ESPN for OU/OSU/KU/KSU and deciding if it’s enough to make some more dough. There are no inherit advantages to being in a super conference, and if the Pac-12 is the last remaining 12 team conference, it could be good owning two entire time zones worth of TV’s without having small timers to be pissed off and wreak havoc.
Baylor has a religious affiliation
and won’t be invited.
I don’t know if I buy what Wilner’s sources are selling. The first UT to Pac10 talk was supposedly brought up BY DODDS a few years back. They seriously considered joining last year, and if OU goes, I think UT ultimately does as well.
After seeing the virtual irrelevance of ND as an independent in the BCS era, why on earth would a regular BCS bowl player want to replicate that?
#CougHarmonyonTwitter with your pants off, M*tha F*cker!
there's a lot going on
First off, Baylor will never be invited to the Pac – no chance. No non-secular institution will be invited to join. Secondly, while Mizzou really wants in to the Big Ten, that invite is not available, so they are focused on joining the SEC along with A&M.
As for Texas, Oklahoma and the Pac – it is indeed a big, fascinating chess match of competing interests and with all parties holding some amount of leverage.
Texas doesn’t want to give up ownership (and thus all the revenues that come with it) of their Longhorn Network. They don’t have much interest in a set-up where all schools split revenue equally, even if the Pac offers a higher overall payday than what Texas can currently bring in. Texas likes being the kingpin – they were in the SWC, they are in the Big-“12”. They like calling the shots. That wouldn’t happen in the Pac-16.
Oklahoma is getting tired of being bossed around, and they like the idea of aligning with the Pac. Their leverage is they think that if they (and by proxy Oklahoma State) leave the Big-“12”, that conference is kaput. I do think they would ideally like to join up with the Pac, but if they can use the threat of leaving as means to get a bigger slice of the Big-“12” pie, they’d settle for that too.
Texas knows that the Pac probably isn’t interested in expanding to only 14 due to the scheduling and alignment logistical nightmares that would come with that number. They also figure the Pac isn’t going to expand to 16 unless Texas joins Oklahoma as one of the 4 new teams, because there aren’t any other Big-“12” options that would bring enough revenue to keep the current TV payouts from dropping. So their leverage is calling Oklahoma’s bluff unless the Pac gives in to all of their demands about conditions to join the conference. And they claim they can keep the conference going even if the Oklahoma schools & Mizzou join A&M out of town, though everyone knows such a conference would be 2nd tier.
The Pac would love to secure Oklahoma & Texas as a preemptive strike in the expected super-conferences of the future, since they really have few other attractive options due to geography and their own standards of what constitutes an acceptable school. But they don’t want to change their hard-fought equal revenue sharing deal, and they are perfectly content with the huge new TV deal they struck and the potential revenue they’ll see from their Pac-12 Networks. They also don’t want to get bossed around by Texas, so Larry Scott has made it known via Wilner that the conference is perfectly happy with the status quo.
I hope Scott sticks to his guns. Only bring in Texas if they agree to all the same terms as every other team in the conference, i.e. fully equal TV revenue sharing, and with divisional alignments & schedules that are palatable to all parties (and this is the other factor that will be hard to overcome).
The one thing that gives me pause is the fact that Scott promised L.A. to Colorado in order to get them to join. That was a horrible precedent. Colorado is a nice addition, but they should not have been given that promise, one that came at the expense of the PNW schools.
I'm not certain that Colorado was promised L.A in a Pac 16.
I think very likely that they were promised that if there was a Pac 12 they would get L.A because they’d be leaving Texas behind, and they’d need a guarantee that they wouldn’t be leaving the Texas recruiting grounds for the PNW. If there is a Pac 16 that pretty much means that there can be no Big 12, and in that case Colorado has no leverage anyways.
by Mind of no mind on Sep 7, 2011 3:27 PM PDT up reply actions
even if they weren't...
…clearly they’d be pissed if a Pac-16 happened and they were in an eastern division with their old Big-12 foes and the Arizona schools. I’m sure Scott would like to avoid creating bad feelings in the newly expanded conference right away. Then again, if the UW gets further isolated from LA, I’d have to imagine Woodward would get pissed, so Scott will have his hands full managing differing agendas if the Pac-16 comes to be.
I've been really resistant to the whole notion of pods all along.
There’s just too great a chance that the division winners are going to be picked by tiebreakers as opposed to on-the-field matchup.
But a four, four team pods provides everybody the greatest access to all geographical aspects of the conference. 3 OOC games, games against the other 3 teams in your pod, and games against two teams from each of the 3 other pods. A two-year rolling schedule. The biggest hurdle to this is that it’s currently against NCAA rules. If the 16 team megaconference scenario happens, though, I’d guess that a number of NCAA rules would be changed.
If it was up to me, I’d go with the east-west split. Any team that doesn’t like it is free to find another conference.
If we were to do the pod alignment...
How about 8 scheduled conference games, in which you play your entire pod and than the 9th could be pod champs vs pod champs to determine the teams that play in the CCG, i.e;
NW Pod Champ vs California Pod Champ
Mountain Pod Champ vs OK/OK ST/TT/UT pod champ?
Attractive, Intelligent, Smart A**
by Neil Vincent Roberts on Sep 20, 2011 12:34 PM PDT up reply actions
16 teams could be good, but probably bad for UW
If there were 2 8 team divisions and we had the old PAC 8 in one, i think the UW would be well served. I suspect that will not happen due to all the objections of Colorado, Utah, Arizona and ASU. Also our chances of a Rose Bowl are greater than 1 out of 16.
Colorado and Utah don't have much ground to stand on objection wise
Arizona and ASU would be hurt the most by an West (Pac 8) and East split as their closest geographic partners, the LA schools would be in a different division.
Colorado is a problem if they were promised So Cal
It does appear that happened even if Scott said otherwise. We may just have to be happy with a NW set of rivals. I have read a ton of things from CU fans and they are a piece of work.
On Softys show today
A guest stated that the pods won’t fly. Larry Scott wants to make it simple for the media and nation to understand, therefore it will be either a N/S (boo) or an W/E (yea) split . He has a point, can anyone understand the Big10 (12) legends and champions divisions?
I still am fan of the zipper, play 7 in your division, and your historical rival in the other division, and schedule 4 other moneymakers, 2 Cs, a B , and an A.
The thing with the pod setup is...
…you don’t have to call them pods. You could call the two divisions north and south, or east and west, or whatever. The conference would only use the pods as a means of scheduling.
In which case they don't need to make Pods at all
They can just create two divisions and rotate the schedule appropriately. The need to create hard pods just isn’t there so long as the schedule rotation is clear and predictable.
Larry Scott said today in Condotta's chat
When asked about pods vs divisions if the PAC went to 16 teams:
“I’ll answer what I can about this, because I know there is a lot of interest. But I don’t want to get too far ahead of ourselves. Our preference is status quo, all conferences staying at 12. But…if we expanded further, we’d carefully look at equal access to all territories.”
I’d say the idea of divisions with pod scheduling is going to be given a real hard look.
East/West
If a Pac-16 happens, I still think there will be an official East/West split. Why? Travel costs and time zone differences. For football, that’s not really a major concern, and probably not so much for men’s hoops either – both bring in a lot of money and are used to longer travel. But for the non-revenue sports, the Oklahoma teams are not going to be terribly interested in regular visits to the PNW and vice versa. And I don’t see the conference doing a certain kind of divisional split for football and something else for the other sports.
That said, I could definitely see them officially doing an East/West split in football but scheduling in a pod format to provide equal access to all areas – kind of the ultimate compromise as nobody would like it, but it would also not be the least favorite option by each school.
Personally, I’m not a big fan of losing more exposure in L.A., but I also don’t think it’s nearly as big a deal as some are saying. I really don’t think kids in L.A. are going to forget about the UW if they play less games there, and I really don’t buy the idea that kids are more willing to go to school at a place that plays in their home town more often – not in today’s world with cell phones, Skype, every game on TV, etc.
Kirk, right now that is what is happening.
Football is the only game split into divisions, while the non rev sports have the added travel costs. When we expanded, I thought for sure the non rev sports WOuld be split to reduce travel costs, instead the opposite happened. The 4 pod versus two divisions still stinks, IMO.
I just want the Pac - 16 to happen before the sec gets to 16 teams.
Public Enemy #1 and enjoying every minute of it. Tapology.
by wolfmanshowlforever on Sep 10, 2011 4:24 PM PDT reply actions
Texas and the Big Ten
I’m a little surprised that there’s been almost no talk of Texas and the Big Ten in the major media. Everything seems to assume that it’s the Pac or independence for Texas. I’m not so sure. The Big Ten provides even more academic snob appeal, they are likely to surpass the Pac in terms of TV deals the next time they renegotiate, and Texas joining up would likely be accompanied by Notre Dame finally giving in and joining up – that’s a hell of a league right there from a TV appeal standpoint.
In both cases Texas will have to accept fully equal TV revenue sharing, which will require revamping the structure of the Longhorn Network. But the Big Ten provides Texas a better fit from a time zone perspective and probably not as much travel expenses as a Pac-16.
Just something to watch out for – while I expect Oklahoma to join the Pac (and probably Oklahoma State with them), I don’t think we should assume Texas has little choice but to follow.
I wonder if it's cultural.
Texas is Texas. The Big Ten schools are are solidly Midwestern schools. Though Nebraska is a on the Great Plains geographically, the polite, passive aggressive, stoic, Midwestern personality make them a cultural fit that is at odds with the brash Texas personality. I doubt (or I hope) that we would not give in to Texas’s bullying, but I think there is still that shadow of a doubt as to whether or not we would. I have no doubt that the Big Ten would insist that the Texas step right into line. I also think it’s more than Texas knowing that it can’t bully the Big Ten; I think the Big Ten has no need for Texas and isn’t willing to gamble on a schoolyard bully whom they see as too big for his boots.
I think geography is also a factor. We’re westerners. A trip from Seattle to Los Angeles is is a long trip, but it’s something we’re prepared to accept as the cost of doing business. It’s something that we intuitively understand. Ann Arbor to Austin is a hoof and a half — especially given all that dead space in between.
I think Missouri would be a good fit for the Pac, but, for geographic reasons, I don’t see it happening. They will make cow eyes at the Big Ten again, but I think they’ll end up in the SEC.
I bet Texas ends up in the SEC, too.
I’d love to land OU, OSU, KU, and Missouri. I think those four would be wonderful additions to the Pac. And I’d love to be sitting in an office in Boulder when those dirty hippies heard the news about the new Pac East.
by Bugs Dodger on Sep 12, 2011 7:43 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
Is it just me . . .
or does Colorado have the most to lose if the conference grows? When I heard about the ACC adding Syracuse and Pitt, it became clear that the PAC12 is going to expand, and probably soon.
It seems to be that Oklahoma and OK State are almost a given, assuming we add any of the Texas schools, Kansas schools or Missouri, isn’t it also a forgone conclusion that their will be east and west divisions? Who do you piss off? Oregon, Washington and their little sisters, or Colorado and maybe Utah? Colorado is once again the whipping boy for their old buddies in the south and although Utah just found itself in a very tough conference, at least they are in a BCS conference.
Even Worse, Colorado has no recourse. Complain all you want, but where else would you like to go? The number of schools who would jump at a chance to take their place is staggering! Not a pretty picture for Colorado fans.
"Winning isn't everything, it's the only thing."
"Legends are made on the shores of Lake Washington"
I have no sympathy
They are still way better off than they were before – they’re getting waaaaaay more TV money than they did and they have more direct connections to Southern California where many of their alumni reside.
Chances are the Pac-16 will use a pod scheduling model (if they can convince the NCAA it’s OK) which will upset everyone but is also the fairest for all.
Agreed . . .
I have no sympathy, just making an observation.
"Winning isn't everything, it's the only thing."
"Legends are made on the shores of Lake Washington"
I will feel bad for them.
The CU alumni I know were beside themselves for this year and the ‘better fit" that the Pac is for them. Because it is. Denver and Boulder are totally different from every college town in the Big 12. Kids from Boulder don’t aspire to find jobs in Omaha or OKC or Saint Louis or Texas (it’s the inbred moronic redneck mouth-breathing asshats whom they hate from CSU who have those aspirations). People from CU go get jobs on the coast. Many students from CU are kids from the coast (and from California especially). So they were all very excited for away games to the coast so see friends and family who live Seattle or the Bay Area or LA. And now? Bummer, Buffs.
As someone who spent five miserable years in the hellhole that is Lincoln, Nebraska, I will feel sorry for Colorado if the Pac-8 becomes the Western Division. They thought that they had finally escaped, the poor bastards.
All that said, the four teams the rumor mill has put into play to come our way are better fits for the Pac and for CU, a playmates, than are the Nebbies, Kansans, ISU, and MIssou. Colorado can do cowboy. Midwestern rube? Not so much.
I have heard tons of trash talked about pods being messy and hard for fans to understand. Additionally, time zone crap will cause problems. Two hours doesn’t seem like much, but staying up for a 9:30 start for Pac-10 games got really old after a while. And we’re doing this for television revenue, remember. And as much as we like the familiarity of the West, they (CU notwithstanding) may vey well like the same of the East. Anything is possible, and I never get what I want, but I’m really holding my breath for the Pac-8 to come back.
Texas has found someone new to bully.
Team Speed Kills is reporting that Texas is talking to the ACC, who, for starters, will let Texas keep the Longhorn network intact.
negotiating tactic
Maybe the ACC is interested, and maybe Texas would seriously consider that conference, but I’d bet that it’s mostly for show as a negotiating tactic.
"Take me to the Prom and put out, or else I'll take the stupid ugly girl with the meth problem!"
If it’s negotiating tactic, it’s a bad one. Take her, Texas. The ACC doesn’t have teeth and she’ll “entertain” your friends, too.
(Read: Baylor might finally get lucky!)
Texas views the ACC as a replacement for what they had with the Big 12: they see a group of lesser schools whom they can dominate politically, financially, and athletically. The Big Ten, the Pac-12, and the SEC are not conferences that they can boss around. The ACC sees Texas as a powerhouse (which it is) that will give it an major infusion that will help it stave off the SEC, but it will not. Texas will treat the ACC schools in the same way that it treated its fellow Big 12 members — as a cancer eating away at the heart and body and mind and soul of the conference — and, within a decade, the schools that once comprised the ACC will be members of the SEC or the Big East, which, if Texas joins the ACC, will become the fourth “Mega Conference.”
I don’t think Texas stands to gain anything by flirting with the ACC. Both the Big Ten and the Pac-12 have made it clear that the Longhorn Network goes or gets subsumed. They’ve made it clear that they’re for equal revenue sharing. They’ve made it clear that they don’t want Texas’s BS. What does the “threat” of Texas going to the ACC do to change any of that? All it proves is that the people who run the ACC are morons and that Texas, given its druthers, wants to continue behaving as it has always behaved.
Consider Baylor’s recent actions. In the face of the Big 12 collapse, rather than positioning themselves as a cool school who would be an asset to you, [insert midmajor conference here], they announced themselves as lawsuit happy nutjobs whom no conference in their right mind would want to welcome aboard. Texas is pulling a similar move. Rather than saying, “Oops; we nutpunched Nebraska and Colorado and TAMU and Oklahoma for all they were worth until we drove them out of the Big 12, and that was a mistake; we need a home, a real one, and we’re willing to learn from our blundering days in the Big 12 and behave as a responsible member institution,” Texas is, instead, telling the big conferences that they have learned nothing and that they want continue their reckless ways.
Texas is poison. I think the commissioners and presidents of the Big Ten, the SEC, and the Pac-12 are smart enough to see that. The ACC stands to make a deal with the devil, but I’ve never liked the ACC and I won’t miss them. I just hope that Texas and Miami don’t figure out a way to breed.
by Bugs Dodger on Sep 13, 2011 3:38 PM PDT reply actions 2 recs
Pac-16 Pods
Pacific Takes has mock ups of some sample pod schedules up this morning. They’re well done and worth a look.
This sounds like things are moving.
If this article is correct, one of the biggest hurdles (the Longhorn network) is close to being dealt with.
I don't like the details reported there
I don’t think it’s a good idea for the conference to be making any revenue concessions to Texas as a condition to join – it’s a really bad precedent IMO, and it’s just the wrong message to send the rest of the conference if you’re Texas. I figure the actual dollar amount difference probably wouldn’t end up being very large, but it’s the principle that bugs me, and I hope Larry Scott holds firm on the idea that TV revenue is equally distributed in the conference – period. No exceptions.
Scheduling concessions (like pod scheduling) I can understand. I’m not happy, because I’d much rather see the old Pac-8 back together with the newcomers & Arizona schools in the inland division, but I know that concessions have to be made to keep everyone happy (i.e. access & exposure in the SoCal market).
Poop on Pods
As of right now, the conference is discussing an alignment where teams would play nine conference games. Teams would play every other team in their pod along with two teams from each of the other three pods.
That doesn’t get the us to LA every year. It doesn’t get the Four Corners schools Texas every year. An East-West aligment would allow us to keep our foothold in Southern California and would give the Four Corners schools regular access to Texas.
by Bugs Dodger on Sep 19, 2011 12:01 PM PDT up reply actions
I prefer that too
Problem is, it will royally piss-off the Arizona schools (and they’ve earned that right as opposed to Colorado & Utah) and it will probably be a sticking point for getting Texas on-board.
The hope I have is that the Pac-16 wouldn’t get approval from the NCAA regarding pod scheduling and that Scott would be “forced” to do the logical coastal/inland division split and scheduling, and Texas can take it or leave it.
I would feel a little bad for the Arizona schools though…
Being able to blame the NCAA would be brilliant.
I’d feel bad for the Arizona, too, but if I have to feel bad for someone from the Pac-10, I choose them.
But I’m prepared to compromise: the Wildcats can come with us, and the East can have the Ducks.
by Bugs Dodger on Sep 19, 2011 12:32 PM PDT up reply actions
Jon Winer is directly disputing the Austin-American Statesman.
Wilner says that the Pac-12 will not grant UT preferential treatment with regard to the LHN. He writes that
the Longhorn Network would have to be folded into the Pac-12 regional model — it wouldn’t exist as a separate entity.
What’s more, there is no chance that any school will have more than 1/16th of the revenue, whether it comes from the conference’s first, second or third-tier rights. NO CHANCE.
We’re more likely to see USC give up football and join the Big West.
Remember, the Pac-12 CEOs would like to have Texas, but they are not desperate to have Texas.
Suck it, Bevo.

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