Grading the Game - Hawaii
by John Berkowitz on Sep 11, 2011 10:10 AM PDT
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Keith Price was absolutely marvelous with the exception of the pick six which prevented the Huskies from putting this one away early. He proved he could throw long and he was also able to put some mustard on the ball when it was needed. He made a few mistakes here and there but you have to be impressed with the way he leads the team. Keep in mind that it was only his third game as a starter and he is going to continue to improve. Grade A Minus
Running Backs
Chris Polk ground out tough yards all day when it was needed as he finished above the century mark once again. Jessie Callier was solid as usual and provided a big spark returning the ball on special teams. Johri Fogerson returned to action this week playing for the first time in about a year. Bishop Sankey spent the day playing on special teams. Jonathan Amosa did a nice job blocking but didn't get a carry or a reception this week at FB. Grade A
Receivers
Everybody showed up on fire for the game. Devin Aguilar had five receptions to lead the team including a 59 yard highlight catch. Jermaine Kearse has two early TD receptions and didn't show any ill effects from being knocked out of the game last week. ASJ flashed his potential with three grabs with one going for 47 and another for a TD. Price used nine different receivers which shows that he was seeing the field well and guys were getting open. Kearse was doubled most of the game but give Price credit for not trying to force the ball to him. Grade A
Offensive Line
They were better this week but there is still a lot of room for improvement and they are going to need to improve quickly with Nebraska coming up next week in Lincoln. Overall I think the kids sustained their blocks better this week. Kohler and Porter looked to be improved. Grade B
Defensive Line
We saw improvement but they really didn't start reaching the quarterback until late in the fourth quarter. Better late than never but maybe it is more of a scheme thing. Once Holt started blitzing the corners good things started to happen. The Huskies held Hawaii to only 55 yards on the ground so they did their job in that department. Ta'amu still isn't playing at the level he was at the end of last season...perhaps that is because he isn't playing in tandem with a healthy Tokolahi. Andrew Hudson showed us some good stuff this week and Haouli Jamora was his usual impressive self. Grade B
Linebacker
Cort Dennison had twelve tackles and forced a fumble which prevented a Hawaii touchdown. Cort is obviously in a class by himself this year as a Husky linebacker. Short little passes seem to really eat this unit up but I saw improvement this week. This week they get to compete more against the run and I expect the unit as a whole to settle down. Lets face it playing Eastern and Hawaii back to back is a challenge because of the high octane passing game. Grade C Plus
Secondary
The return of Quinton Richardson helped and the unit as a whole was improved over last week. That being said they need to keep improving week to week to give the huskies a chance against Pac 12 powered air attacks. Desmond Trufant had perhaps his finest game as a Husky in my opinion. He really got after it out there and that two point touch back return was a thing of beauty. The safeties played better this week. I really liked the way that Sean Parker looks back there. He needs more reps but he is going to be special before he leaves. Grade C Plus
Special Teams
Take away the rugby style punt and one long Hawaii kickoff return and it was a good day overall for this group. You can tell that they have improved from last season. Callier is a definite return threat. Kasen Williams is still trying to find himself as a punt returner. Two blocked PAT's with the final one being returned by Trufant for two was awesome. Grade B Plus
Coaching
The kids were definitely ready to play this week so all the hard work paid off and the team is 2-0 for the first time since 2007. Sark called a great game in the first half. It should have been 35-7 at the half if the 14 point swing of the pick six hadn't happened. I thought he was too conservative in the third quarter and the team seemed to tighten up because of it.
Defensively the team showed emotion and played better. Getting stops on third is still a big adventure and the lack of a consistent pass rush is putting a lot of pressure on the secondary. I liked how Holt called the fourth quarter and wondered why he didn't call it that way all day. Once he started doing some corner blitzes it really took Moniz out of his rhythm. Grade B
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This team responds well to being aggressive
What we all forget is that Sark will proclaim the youth of his players but in all honesty this is Sark’s first Head Coaching job and he too is green and it shows when becomes conservative and a bit shaky in his play calling.
One thing that Don James did well was developed the players and let them play football. James had his moments too where his conservatism may have cost the team but he was good at letting his team play their game.
in 91 on the road against Nebraska the team could packed in after the half but they KNEW they were much better than that and the second half is history.
We have talent in fact the Dawgs looked like shades of the Superbowl Rams team with Torry Holt, Isaac Bruce and others where they just lit up the skies.
I think this team has the ability to offensively dominate team right off the field a la that Rams team. We have all the ingredients. Depth at WR with a couple of studs, a great RB (Ram had Faulk) and good TE.
The only time I see this team feeling lethargic is when they’re in this mode where they’re being attacked and they cannot attack back and that’s on Offense or Defense.
Murchy
Good call
I think you are right on about Sark and the fact this is his first head coaching job. I would like to see him relieve himself of the play calling duties on offense and just concentrate on his head coaching duties.
As far as the D if you watched the USC game they brought the heat against Utah and it worked maybe we don’t have the athletes as USC to do this but sitting back is not working either.
by lorenzothedog on Sep 11, 2011 11:15 AM PDT up reply actions
I can sort of see a dedicated play caller
but when Sark is calling an aggressive game, he really does call a very nice game. Danger of him giving up the calling is that we get somebody who sucks. Personally, I’m fine with Sark continuing to call the plays.
He’ll get better, too. It’s only his third year, and he’s just starting to build his offense like he wants it instead of inheriting it. He needs a chance to implement it before we give up on it.
I liked how Holt called the fourth quarter and wondered why he didn’t call it that way all day.
The increase in pressure was mostly a function of the fact that Hawaii had to start throwing the ball down the field later in the game. Earlier in the game, Moniz was able to take the short stuff the D was giving, so blitzing wasn’t going to be as effective.
The line actually did a decent job at times getting pressure earlier in the game. The problem was that the ends would lose contain, and Moniz did a good job sliding outside (or inside) them and buying extra time in the pocket. The DB’s lost their men too many time on those plays, and they were the ones that Moniz hit down the field in the first half. When the Huskies sat back, his completions were generally short.
There were definitely too many times that the Dawgs’ CB’s simply lined up too far off the receivers. The one that upset me the most was a 2nd and goal from the 5, and Ducre was standing two yards deep in the endzone. That’s an easy TD, just about every time. The same thing happened on several 3rd and short plays – the DB lined up beyond the first down marker, essentially conceding the conversion.
Hawaii’s d-line did a much better job handling Polk than I thought they’d be able to. They were really quick laterally, and obviously fairly strong. The o-line did a good job in pass protection, but their run blocking left something to be desired.
Price has great touch on the ball. And he showed on a couple of ocassions that he can stick the deeper posts on his receiver when he needs to. But there were a few ocassions that the Dawgs ran short passes that were designed to be catch-and-run plays that Price floated passes that need to be delivered with more heat. And we still don’t know if he’s got the arm for that big boy out – the one that the ball has to travel 40 yards on a line. Those quick posts down the middle travel about half that far. Who would’ve thought that Price would be completing 70% of his passes, with a 7:1 TD/Int ratio after two games? Not me. Or that so many people would be catching the ball each week…
Ducre looked much, much better this week. He sort of started to “get it” in the second half, that he could play more aggressively than he had before. It started when he broke up that two-point coversion attempt. It really looked like that was a big confidence-builer. His play late had as much to do with the d-line pressure late in the game. That’s a good sign.
Ta’amu’s inability to use his hands (with the cast) has a lot to do with how he looks right now, I think. He just can’t shed or redirect guys all that well with only one hand, and it limits how much he can do. I agree he misses Tokolahi. The whole team does. Potoa’e didn’t play many snaps. I wonder if it’s a performance issue, or if his knees are bothering him.
Great hustle by Dennison on the long pass that he stripped on the first defensive series. Other than him, the linebackers were hardly on the field. Timu and Fuiamono probably each only had about 20 snaps, if that.
I was one that thought Aguilar might be the odd man out this season. I don’t know if I have to eat crow or my words, but either way, I’m fine with it.
Loved the helmets. And even more, I loved the fact that the team didn’t make a big deal out of it ahead of time. A great tribute.
4th quarter D
I thought that the line substitutions throughout the game helped in keeping the DLine “fresh” for the 4th quarter. I’d also be curious to seethe differences in the depth of UH’s OLine vs. our DLine.
Now we agree on something!
There were definitely too many times that the Dawgs’ CB’s simply lined up too far off the receivers
This is my problem with Nick Holt. As the Def. Coordinator his job is to orchestrate the defense, meaning call a play and pressure scheme that will stop the offense from getting a first down. With one minute left in the 3rd quarter, on 3rd and 1, Hawaii set up with three WR’s to one side and everybody on that side of the defense was 10 yards off the ball. What happened? Bubble screen to the slot receiver for a first down. Surprise, surprise, surprise.
Same exact scenario happened again in the fourth quarter, I was screaming when I saw it (along with most the fans next to me). I don’t care if you have Deion Sanders, Superman, and the Flash, you will not be able to stop them from getting the first down! Completely unacceptable play call and/or formations and/or pressure assignments.
"Winning isn't everything, it's the only thing."
"Legends are made on the shores of Lake Washington"
soft zone
I’m not a big fan of the soft zone coverage either, but this staff clearly values playing to the score & situation. I saw a few situations in the 4th quarter where we were playing a soft zone basically conceding 1st down yardage. On the one hand, that’s frustrating because it gave Hawaii a high percentage chance of converting the 1st down. On the other hand, it’s still not a sure thing they convert those plays – there could be a pass-pro breakdown, Moniz could fumble the snap, he could simply misfire the pass, etc. And when you have a lead and it’s late in the game, there is value in forcing your opponent to eat clock while gaining relatively small chunks of yardage. Sure, you could play tight coverage, but you also present a greater risk of giving up a huge play that gets Hawaii back in the game quickly.
I’ll say this – I saw a real nice mix of coverages in the 1st half, and I saw Holt getting creative with personnel and schemes. As much as we hate this excuse, I think a certain part of the conservative play-calling we see in games comes from not yet trusting that we have the talent to execute a higher-risk defense. As well, for all we know Sark is dictating a more conservative strategy to Holt.
I’ll say this – while the defense isn’t yet where we want it to be, it improved quite a bit this week IMO. Part of that may simply be the return of Q-Rich, part of it may just be they played with a lot more fire this week. They’ll get a stronger, though quite different test next week in Lincoln. I wonder if we’ll see Lagafuaina or Shelton lining up next to Ta’amu at times with Thompson shifted out to the end.
On the one hand, that’s frustrating because it gave Hawaii a high percentage chance of converting the 1st down. On the other hand, it’s still not a sure thing they convert those plays
When you add in sacks and the fumbles Moniz had, there was basically a 62% chance that Hawaii would gain 7 yards each time they passed. Over the course of a 10-play drive, the odds are it happens twice on 1st, 2nd, or 3rd downs at least once during a drive. It’s not sexy, but it’s playing the right odds. Especially with a lead, as you mention.
While I don’t know if Sarkisian is dictating the soft zone we’ve seen, I’m confident in saying he’s at the very least on board with it. If he wasn’t, the Dawgs wouldn’t be playing it.
The D took a good stride on Saturday. Now do it again next Saturday. The nice thing about playing Nebraska is that it should be easier for the young linebackers to play faster than they have to date. I’m certainly not saying it’s going to be easier for them, but the reads that they make are definitely less complicated.
Agree the defense made a good stride in the right direction
But, as you know, I think they are being held back by the play calling.
"Winning isn't everything, it's the only thing."
"Legends are made on the shores of Lake Washington"
Missing my point
I agree that there was much more variety yesterday, more formations, different looks and even different pressures. My problem is that the majority of them still come while using zone coverage. I also understand the advantages of zone and that is can be the best play call. But on 3rd and 1, why not go man coverage, bump and run with the safeties as your back up to prevent big plays? Put up a fight, don’t just give them the first down.
My biggest issue is we run SOOO much zone that we are making it too easy on the opposing QB. If their QB knows it’s zone coverage, he can make decisions faster, get rid of the ball faster and negate any pass rush or blitz. We’ve got to make their QB work! If it takes an extra 0.5 seconds for their QB to tell if it’s man or zone, that will greatly help our pass rush get to him, rush him, or swat the ball down. By being one dimensional we are making it too easy.
"Winning isn't everything, it's the only thing."
"Legends are made on the shores of Lake Washington"
and you missed mine
But on 3rd and 1, why not go man coverage, bump and run with the safeties as your back up to prevent big plays? Put up a fight, don’t just give them the first down.
Because the score and time left on the clock situation dictate that it’s smarter to give some cushion to ensure you don’t give up a huge play, especially when you don’t have many healthy CB’s that you can trust to play tight man coverage. And as I (and Sundodger) noted, it’s not a “gimme” when we line up in soft zone coverage.
Look, it bugs me too when we play conservative defense, but when I stop and analyze the situation, I realize it’s the smarter call. Especially given the lack of healthy bodies we have at corner.
I expect that in a couple more years we should have the kind of experience and talent in the secondary, not to mention the depth, where we can play more man coverage and take more risks. Right now, Sark is focused on winning and less so on style points. The last thing Sark & Holt wanted to do in the 4th quarter Saturday is allow Hawaii some big plays to score quickly – better to concede the dink & dunk and let them bleed time off the clock as they slowly marched downfield.
bleed time off the clock as they slowly marched downfield
You said it very succinctly and made it plain vanilla to understand. And thanks for clearing up the confusion some on this blog are spreading.
Miracles do happen but they sometimes just take longer.
Ultimately it boils down to “We must trust the coaches” and not the exspurts.
Support our student athletes, have faith in the coaches! "...it's how you play the game!"
Not giving up big plays
while I agree with not giving up big plays when you have a lead (as we did the whole game), Hawaii is a rhythm offense and your job should be to disrupt it, get off the field, and bleed the clock with your offense. Letting them dink and dunk can build confidence and set up some of their more dangerous big plays, all while wearing down your defense. Even in an impressive win, we lost the T.O.P. battle by about 4.5 minutes.
Holding
one new interesting note from JB Hawaii was holding on almost every play none called. That definitely slows pass rush.
Support our student athletes, have faith in the coaches! "...it's how you play the game!"
Exactly.
It’s lunacy to let them keep their offense on the field to “bleed off the clock”. Get them off the field and kill the clock with OUR offense.
Sorry kirkd, I just can’t buy that it’s better to give them the first down than to try and get them off the field, while still protecting against big plays. 3rd and 1 with every DB 10 yards off the ball IS a “gimme”.
"Winning isn't everything, it's the only thing."
"Legends are made on the shores of Lake Washington"
no, it's not a "gimme"
It’s highly likely, but not a gimme. If you watched the game, there were a couple questionable snaps back to Moniz – you can always have a bad snap. You can have false start penalties that push them back (which happened a few times). You can have holding (which happened often but wasn’t called nearly enough). Moniz could simply screw up the throw. You could have a blocking breakdown where our guy gets through quickly and either sacks Moniz or forces him to throw the ball away.
At no point in the 4th quarter did Hawaii have the ball down by less than a TD. Forcing them to have to march a long field, short gains at a time, was a sound strategy. In fact, of the two possessions Hawaii had down 12 points, the first one ended in a punt and the second one in an interception.
The conservative defensive strategy wasn’t pretty, but it was effective, and given that the coaches know their personnel better than we do, we have to assume it was the best strategy given the health and talent on hand at that point.
Coach Sark disagrees with you . . ..
From Condotta’s blog entry recapping Sark’s press conference today:
“Third down – if you look at the number of third downs for our defense, gosh – we just have to contain the dang quarterback. That’s killing us on third down right now. It’s not like we’re not there in coverage; but when a guy has the ball and he rolls right, and he rolls back left – it’s hard to cover a guy that long – whether you’re in man or zone coverages. So we’ve got to find a way of – as we’re trying to put pressure on the quarterback, to contain the quarterback, and keep him in the pocket. And that’s obviously going to be doubly important this week as much as any, with (Taylor) Martinez Saturday. So it’ll be something we work on is third down and it’s something we emphasize. We need to get better; it’s too big a factor. We need to get off the field on defense. They are on the field too long, for too many plays in a row. We’ve got to be able to get off the field
- - Hoping for a bad snap or a penalty should be evidence enough that it’s a gimme. You’re not expecting US to stop them, you are hoping THEY will stop themselves. I like you, so I won’t add any Willingham/Baer jokes.
- - It isn’t a strategy, Coach Sark’s comments are quite clear, he wants the defense off the field.
"Winning isn't everything, it's the only thing."
"Legends are made on the shores of Lake Washington"
Hate the formatting on here
second item was #2.
"Winning isn't everything, it's the only thing."
"Legends are made on the shores of Lake Washington"
you're reading too much into that
In general, of course Sark wants the defense to get the stop and get off the field. But I guarantee you – Sark was OK with the way the defense was called in the 4th quarter.
Also, look at the meat of that quote – it was about containing the QB running around buying time, not about playing soft zones on 3rd and short.
I'm shocked you really think that was strategy . . .
"Winning isn't everything, it's the only thing."
"Legends are made on the shores of Lake Washington"
Sorry
Last year I hit my limit for making excuses for why we can’t play defense, and haven’t had a decent defense in a decade.
"Winning isn't everything, it's the only thing."
"Legends are made on the shores of Lake Washington"
there's a difference
I want us to have a dominant defense too. But I also want us to win games. Right now, I think Holt & Sark are correct in playing it safe late in the game with a lead. It’s not pretty, and it’s frustrating when the opponent converts often on 3rd down, but it also worked. If you look back at the Hawaii game, we actually played them pretty well defensively in the 4th quarter. Take away the short field we gave them after the botched rugby-punt and we did pretty well against them that quarter.
There’s also a difference between excuses and explanations. I don’t think it’s an invalid explanation to say that this program is still in a rebuilding phase post-Willingham, and that the talent & experience level isn’t yet where it will be in another year or two.
That’s not to say that there aren’t valid concerns about the coaching. I’m disappointed that we haven’t gotten more pressure on teams this year; even considering the quick passing games of EWU and the elusiveness of Moniz in Hawaii’s run & shoot, and even considering Ta’amu’s hand injury, we still have rarely seen one of our guys just flat out beat their man; against an FCS line and a rebuilt WAC line, I think we should have seen more of that so far.
Our young LB’s played poor zone defense against EWU. I thought our drops were better against Hawaii, and not coincidentally we were playing more nickel & dime packages with Q-Rich back. But we allowed Moniz to buy time too often, and we got burned by that on multiple plays.
But I’m willing to see the whole season before I make any whole-sale judgments. I think Holt is probably overpaid, but I don’t necessarily think he’s a bad coach. By next season the youth and talent excuse will be less valid, and it will be more reasonable to expect better results.
As to why the defense has sucked prior to Sark, well, that’s a different discussion and not really relevant to the current situation (other than how empty was the cupboard that was left).
Pass Defense
In the first half, when the D only gave up 7 points, the secondary looked to be playing tighter, with lots of movement pre-snap. Coverages were being disguised and alternated on most plays. It appeared the second half strategy was more conservative, with less pre-snap shifting, and corners playing softer.
Although we only forced 1 first half punt, we also forced a turnover on downs, and Hawaii’s offense was less effective.
BTW, I really like the way Price is distributing the ball, keeping all the receivers in the game. Both this week, and against Eastern.
In other news...
… Eastern Washington got the crap kicked out of them by the University of South Dakota last week (30-17).
Great improvement by the UW offense in week 2 is counterbalanced by continued struggles on the Defensive side. As of right now, we cannot handle any team that has basic competency at QB and, looking at our schedule, I see many of those (thank God we miss ASU this year). The good news is that I think we can get into and win shootouts. We may have to get used to the Donatell Bend-Don’t-Break philosophy that he perfected after taking over for Baer.
Damn, my eyeball tastes good.
@chrislandon
Eastern Washington got the crap kicked out of them by the University of South Dakota last week (30-17).
Good Grog.
I am officially scared witless of the deathmarch that we are about to make to the Land of Neb.
TRAP GAME!
after leaving it all on the field last week it’s hard to come out with the same emotion the next game
Very good game.
Game ball should go to Keith Price, 18-25 passing, 315 yards, 4 TD’s, and 1 Int. An outstanding performance in so many ways. Keith really throws a nice ball, great spiral and on target. He might not have Jake’s arm strength, but he makes up for it with his efficiency and smarts. He will be a great leader and great QB for the next three seasons.
I loved the UW’s offense in this one. Sark was dialed in during the first half, nine different receivers caught the ball, that’s how you make life tough on a defense. It’s too bad he got conservative in the second half.
The defense, you can probably guess what I think, but it is anyway. I really think we have the talent to be successful on defense, the line is getting better each season, the younger LB’s are learning, but pretty talented. Even the secondary really seems to have the ability to be good. Unfortunately I think the play calling is making them look bad and not using all the talent we have on hand appropriately. You can’t run the ball every down, the defense will load the box. So why do we run zone 90% of the time? The QB and coaches know what to expect and it makes their jobs soooo much easier.
Overall I was very pleased with the game. Next up, a very tough challenge against Nebraska. We’ve got the talent and ability to pull it off, but going to Lincoln is one heck of a challenge.
"Winning isn't everything, it's the only thing."
"Legends are made on the shores of Lake Washington"
So why do we run zone 90% of the time?
It’s the right call. When Hawaii went 1×3 or 1×4, the DB on the solo side played man virtually the entire game, with free safety help over the top. The other side zoned up.
The Huskies simply don’t have 4 (or 5) DB’s that can line up and go man, play after play. They just don’t.
You can call it playing conservative if you want. I just wonder what you’d say when a few of those 6 and 8 yard completions become 60-yard TD’s when an in-route adjustment turns a hitch into a hitch-and-go.
I agree that the execution needs to be better, and that’s on Holt. I completely disagree that the concept is wrong, though. Especially given the cornerback situation. And the lack of an effective interior pass rush.
well... kinda.
… if we could mount a pass rush that actually pressured the QB, it would be less of a problem. But, yes, you are right. In the absence of a reliable pass rush, it is the right call.
Damn, my eyeball tastes good.
@chrislandon
Lear I’m sort of with you on our Cornberback play. I’m not a big fan of giving the cushion for the duration of the game. However, I think Sundodger is right. We don’t have great CBs, who are playing the position in shut down mode. What I think we are seeing is Sark and Holt in agreement (for now). We’ve shown we can score lot of points. knowing that our cornerback play isn’t a finished product yet, maybe we are giving the opposition the 5 to 8 yarder, but we are not giving up the big play. Taking this approach forces the oppisiton to sustain a drive in order to score. As a defensive coordinator, I would want to force the opposition to sustain a drive in order to score. I do not like giving up big plays, because they come so fast and leads to a higher point total for the opposition. I’m wondering if the coaching staff has come to realize that if we limit the potential of big plays, we take maybe 10 points off the scoreboard for the opposition. I’d like to see better cornerback play myself, but I ain’t seeing it and I’m sure you aren’t seeing it either at this point. Hell these days playing corner is very difficult, especially when so many teams will simply play for pass interference in order to acquire a 1st down on 3rd and long situations. I’m hoping as the season continues, our cornerback play will get better. It should considering the fact that Eastern and Hawaii threw essentially everything at us back there. At some point the light will go on and our kids will now how to play the position with better savvy. Cornerbacks come as a premium at the pro level and their’s a reason for it.
All I saw was purple
It will be interesting...
…watching the transition in playing a team like Nebraska. If I recall they run the spread option? This is like a totally different animal compared to the pass happy opponents we’ve faced to date. We were able to get it done in the Holiday Bowl against “the big red” but the road atmosphere and the motivation are going to be factors. I love college football and the fact that we can play two pass oriented teams and then go up against a tough running team. GO DAWGS!!
Washington Husky Football-"Hear the bark, feel the bite!"
Nebraska has a new OC...
who likes to run the no-huddle. I haven’t seen any of their games this year, but that was his tendency in previous seasons, so it might look a bit different than what we saw last year.
by Carne Guisada on Sep 11, 2011 6:08 PM PDT up reply actions
I disagree on the talent.
Plus, it tells your current players that they aren’t good enough and that you don’t trust them.
I hope you like being the worst pass defense in the nation, because that is where we currently rank.
"Winning isn't everything, it's the only thing."
"Legends are made on the shores of Lake Washington"
We need to stop using the worst pass defense in the nation thing...
It is easy to bend and twist stats. By comparison, we have the nations 6th best rushing defense out of teams who have played 2 games.
The reason we are the “worst pass defense” is a function of the teams we have played, not a reflection of our actual team.
Looking at this even further...
We lead the nation in passing attempts against us by NINE. Insane margin.
We've given up an average of 400 yards of passing per game.
Against an FCS school and a WAC school. Sorry if I’m not impressed.
"Winning isn't everything, it's the only thing."
"Legends are made on the shores of Lake Washington"
I think what I said completely went over your head...
Our two opponents (which by the way is a tiny sample size) offenses are completely predicated on the passing attack. We have the most passing attempts against us in college football. As a result of that, we have the most yards against us. Go figure.
I am not saying we are “good” or trying to make excuses, I am just trying to explain why the stats are very disproportionate to reality.
by kschimke on Sep 11, 2011 6:46 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
Reality is we can't stop a decent passing attack.
It was true last year and it was true this year. I was trying not to bring it up, but South Dakota only surrendered 369 yards of passing to EWU, we gave up 473. Not good.
"Winning isn't everything, it's the only thing."
"Legends are made on the shores of Lake Washington"
. . . . it is true this year . . . .
who needs grammar
"Winning isn't everything, it's the only thing."
"Legends are made on the shores of Lake Washington"
Grammar
is what separates us from the EWU Eagle.
Grammar and our aversion to bestiality is what separates us from the Cougar.
Grammar, our aversion to bestiality, and a sense of humor is what separates us from the Husker.
by Bugs Dodger on Sep 11, 2011 8:17 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
I'd ask what separates us from Oregon . . .
but I don’t have time to read a 10,000 page novel.
"Winning isn't everything, it's the only thing."
"Legends are made on the shores of Lake Washington"
Don't even look at stats until like week 5
We’re not the worst pass defense in college ball, just like we’re not the 6th best team against the run. Nebraska won’t throw for 400 – it’s not their style – so that last place ranking is going to shoot up no matter what next week
Look at the number of attempts against (18 more than anyone in the country).
And look at yards per attempt. Dawgs are closer to the middle of the pack in that stat.
Agreed kschimke
Regardless of what platforms both Eastern and Hawaii play on, those were two very sophisticated passing offenses, which are bound to wrinkle the stat sheet. I’m not sure we’ll see another football team that in love with the pass the rest of the season. To a point, it may benefit our secondary just defending it.
All I saw was purple
not even close to the worst
Passing yards allowed is a highly flawed metric for judging pass defense. By pass efficiency ratings – taking into account completion percentage, yards per attempt, touchdowns and interceptions per pass attempt – UW is 72nd in the country out of 120. Not great – a little below average – but far from the worst.
They aren’t good enough. Not enough of them, anyway. It’s no secret. Holt has said it. Sarkisian has said it. Losing Long was a big loss; he was at worst the 4th-best corner, and that lack of depth is a killer.
If you disagree on talent, please lay out who’s going to cover man all game. Trufant, sure. Richardson, no, not on that ankle. Ducre? Gobern? Glenn? Who is it, Lear?
Funny thing . . .
I was watching the replay of the game on ROOTS yesterday. What really annoyed me, was seeing us line up in man press coverage on 2 and 12. If we can do it on that play, why can’t we do it on 3rd and 1?
"Winning isn't everything, it's the only thing."
"Legends are made on the shores of Lake Washington"
Meaning . . .
we do have the talent, we just didn’t call it when it would have been most useful. When are we going to realize that by telling the players we don’t have the talent, we are telling them they are not good enough and actually hurting their confidence and ability to do the job.
Bad coaches give you excuses. Good coaches find a way to make it work. Sark has found a way to make it work, I keep hearing excuses from Holt.
"Winning isn't everything, it's the only thing."
"Legends are made on the shores of Lake Washington"
You can still have two safeties over the top and be in man coverage.
A one dimensional defense just helps their QB make choices faster and it hurts our pass rush.
Just like an offense needs to mix the pass and the run, an defense is most effective when it mixes man and zone coverage.
"Winning isn't everything, it's the only thing."
"Legends are made on the shores of Lake Washington"
old indian proverb
When you do not know what you are talking about best to keep mouth closed.
Support our student athletes, have faith in the coaches! "...it's how you play the game!"
by Purpledawg on Sep 11, 2011 11:03 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
Good.
Then shut your mouth.
"Winning isn't everything, it's the only thing."
"Legends are made on the shores of Lake Washington"
So let me get this straight...
You’re going to play man under with two deep safeties against 4 and 5 wides?
You are going to put a defense on the field with seven DB’s?
Who are they, first of all….
Second, I’m running 5 streaks down the field, and a QB draw on every play. Offense has a two man advantage. The QB doesn’t even have to make anyone miss before he’s 20 yards down the field.
That's why variety is SOOOO important.
I wouldn’t use it every play, but I would use it enough to keep the QB guessing.
You think it’s ridiculous to use seven DB’s, I think it’s ridiculous to use 4 DB’s when they have 4-5 WR’s on the field. We put 4 DB’s on the field when they have a 2 WR formation. So they add 2-3 more WR’s and we add MAYBE 1 more DB. Does that make any sense??? The more WR’s they use, the more DB’s we need to add to the field. That’s why they run this style offense, their small speedy WR’s are going to beat our LB’s every time, it’s a great miss match.
"Winning isn't everything, it's the only thing."
"Legends are made on the shores of Lake Washington"
You need to recount the number of DB's.
There were at least 5 virtually the entire game. And only two linebackers. Sometimes only 1.
The Dawgs were in a 4-2-5 virtually all game.
Which was a very nice improvement over last week
Last week it was 4 DB’s, this week we got smart and added a fifth DB. My point remains, the more WR’s they put on the field, the more small fast guys we need on the field to cover them.
"Winning isn't everything, it's the only thing."
"Legends are made on the shores of Lake Washington"
got smart or got healthy?
Last week Quinton Richardson wasn’t able to play, and we mostly played 4 DB’s. This week Richardson was able to play, and we were mostly playing with 5 DB’s. Coincidence?
What was wrong with Glenn last week?
He is pushing Fellner for the starting job, but he’s not good enough to be the 5 DB and replace a LB that has 1 previous start? Are you telling me that EWU receivers are better than our back up DB’s? If that’s the case, it’s going to be a very long time before we see good defense.
"Winning isn't everything, it's the only thing."
"Legends are made on the shores of Lake Washington"
ask Sark & Holt
Glenn isn’t a corner any more, and he’s had knee surgery – maybe he’s not an ideal option in one-on-one coverage with receivers.
what about zone?
he could have played the majority of the game!
"Winning isn't everything, it's the only thing."
"Legends are made on the shores of Lake Washington"
I think they still consider him the best cover safety.
Knee surgery? Do you mean broken leg, or am I completely not remembering something?
broken leg, my bad
Not sure what the deal was with his off-season issue playing pick-up basketball. At the time I thought I’d heard he injured his knee, but whatever it was it turned out to be much less of an issue than the initial rumors suggested.
This week
I was refering to last week when we “didn’t have enough DB’s”.
"Winning isn't everything, it's the only thing."
"Legends are made on the shores of Lake Washington"
Back to my only point . . .
we need more variety and better situational play calling in our defense. Running 90% zone is only making life easier on the other team. DB’s lining up 10 yards off the ball on 3rd and short doesn’t work.
"Winning isn't everything, it's the only thing."
"Legends are made on the shores of Lake Washington"
But will it work against . . .
Arizona? ASU? (if we see them in a conference championship) Oregon?
We got away with it this time. I’m just getting tired of seeing our defense get lit up against any average QB. I see this as one of the main issue as why we keep getting lit up. We won’t win any championships until we figure out how to stop passing offenses.
"Winning isn't everything, it's the only thing."
"Legends are made on the shores of Lake Washington"
Lear, I’m just guessing here, but maybe we are bringing our defensive backs along slowly in order for them to get a feel for what they will be exposed to later in the season. Build a feel for comfort out there. Being off the ball early will allow a young corner a chance to visualize the route in progress. Repetition is key here, especially when we don’t have great cornback talent on our roster. Our kids are talented, make no mistake but will they make a living at it at the next level? I see a lot of on-the-field teaching going on, a lot of player development in progress during the game, plus I see a defensive schematic that has been effective in the win/loss column thus far. I’m confident that by the time we approach the 4th or 5th game of the season, Holt and the defensive staffers will turn our secondary kids loose. But for now it’s about getting a feeling for the position, progressing into learning how to key routes and tendencies out of certain formations. I haven’t been too excited about our cloud coverage and we are leaving the underneath routes wide freakin’ open. However we are also tackling the underneath routes very well and not giving up anything deep. I’m not sure, but I think the defensive back scheme we are seeing is being used to develop our DBs while the game is in progress. I can only hope.
All I saw was purple
Sounds familiar
maybe we are bringing our defensive backs along slowly in order for them to get a feel for what they will be exposed to later in the season
Isn’t that EXACTLY what we said last year? Do we need STILL need to bring Trufant, Richardson, and Fellner along slowly? How many more years before we can start playing aggresive defense at the start of the season?
"Winning isn't everything, it's the only thing."
"Legends are made on the shores of Lake Washington"
I want to see our CBs develop
the ability to turn around and look for the ball when it is thrown when playing man. Those automatic PI penalties are going to just kill us against Oregon and Arizona. Maybe that’s why we have been playing zone. Either way, it is something that needs to be addressed.
depends of if we're ahead
Clearly this staff is playing to the score and the time on the clock. If we are nursing a lead against those teams late in the game, I’m sure we’ll play a lot of soft zone coverage in an attempt to keep the play in front of our guys and prevent big gains, forcing them to bleed time off the clock. If we’re behind, we’ll have to gamble more to try to get the ball back quicker.
By the time those games come around Richardson should be fully healthy and Gobern & Ducre will have at least 5 more games of experience under their belt. With any luck, our corner depth will be improved and fully healthy (or at least as healthy as you can be midway through a football season). As well, Timu & Fuimaono will have 5 more games of experience and should get better at their zone drops. And if we’re particularly lucky, Tokolahi will be back at something close to full health giving us (hopefully) a real threat at the 3-T next to Ta’amu and improve the pass rush.
Tokolahi
He hasn’t had a snap yet this season.
UW Dawg Pound - SBN Seattle
by John Berkowitz on Sep 12, 2011 2:42 PM PDT up reply actions
correct
And I didn’t expect him to. I figure if he plays, he’ll start getting into games in a couple weeks to start getting back into shape, and if things go well he’ll be a factor late in the season.
I haven’t seen much of Potoa’e so far this season. Not sure if that’s strictly health-related as he deals with his knee issues, or more of a performance issue. I was really nervous when they revealed that he was dealing with balky knees, and what I’ve seen so far this season hasn’t relieved that anxiety any. The kid has tremendous potential, but I’m worried he’ll end up like too many of our DT recruits lately – injured and unable to play.
Potoa'e's lack of playing time has me real nervous.
Based on the number of snaps he played last season, I have a tough time thinking his lack of playing time is performance-related.
The way I’ve heard his injury described, it doesn’t sound like there’s a real fix, either. Play with pain, or don’t play at all….
We won’t win any championships until we figure out how to stop passing offenses.
True. But the notion that stopping passing offenses is a quick fix, that playing more man will suddenly cure all of the defenses woes, is simply false.
It's not a cure all
but it will help and it is holding us back.
"Winning isn't everything, it's the only thing."
"Legends are made on the shores of Lake Washington"
You think it will help.
And you’re in the minority that doesn’t include any members of the coaching staff. Including Sarkisian.
off course
There is a saying about somebody who comments the same false argument over ond over in defiance of any substance or reasoning in his argument.
You must have 50 comments on this post all saying exactly the same thing. You definitely need to be evaluated.
Support our student athletes, have faith in the coaches! "...it's how you play the game!"
First of all, the corner on the one-receiver side played man all game.
He had safety help on the deep middle, but was on his own for everything else.
DB’s lining up 10 yards off the ball on 3rd and short doesn’t work.
Second, there were precisely two 3rd and short (less than 4 yards) that Hawaii converted with the pass all game. They picked up a first down or TD on the ground 5 times. The UW had one sack, and broke up one pass (on fourth down, actually). Both of those times came in the second half, with the Dawgs holding a double-digit lead.
You still haven’t identified tthe multiple DB’s the UW has that can play man. And to simply suggest that the lack of “playing man” is what is holding this defense back is entirely about what you want to see (which, in reality, is the 1991 defense, not man coverage per se). There is not one single team in the country that would play Hawaii in straight-out man coverage as anything more than an opportunity to bring a secondary blitz (which the Dawgs did, by the way). Not one. Not a strong Georgia team, with a deep secondary in the 2008 Sugar Bowl. Not USC. Not Florida. Not Alabama. Not Wisconson. All teams that played and beat Hawaii in the Jones/McMackin eras utilizing zone defenses.
Zone defense isn’t passive by design. The Dawgs are playing passively. That’s the issue. Not the defense itself. It’s the right way to play a multi-receiver team.
They played man on 2nd and 12
Why can’t we do it on 3rd and 1, it might even help stop the running plays on 3rd and short. Even with 5 running plays on third and short, how are we going to stop those plays with the majority of the defense 10 yards off the ball??
"Winning isn't everything, it's the only thing."
"Legends are made on the shores of Lake Washington"
actually...
…zone defense is usually better against running plays because as a defender you are facing the defense reading the whole play, whereas in man coverage you are focused on your receiver and generally have your back to the play.
Hhmmm
Man coverage near the line of scrimmage on 3rd and 1, or zone coverage 10 yards off the ball. I’m sorry, but as long as they are 10 yards off the ball you are giving them the first down.
P.S. – Stop arguing with me, I’m never going to be able to get to the results from the pick em contest!!!
"Winning isn't everything, it's the only thing."
"Legends are made on the shores of Lake Washington"
no...
…you are giving them a higher chance to convert with the benefit of severely restricting their ability to generate a big play. When you have a lead and there’s not a lot of time left on the clock, this is a reasonable strategy.
You asked for it . . .
that’s only a reasonable strategy if your Tyrone Willingham.
"Winning isn't everything, it's the only thing."
"Legends are made on the shores of Lake Washington"
Or virtually any other coach in the country.
You should look how little full-out man is actually played. Especially against spread teams.
Better performance, but pleant of room for improvement
I was happy with Keith Price out there except for the pic six. He cannot stare down a receiver and get away with it. Still like John said, Price played really well. I think this game illustrates the Keith is our starter now and in the next few years. He was mostly rock solid yesterday.
Still apprehensive about our defense. We improved from week 1 but either we aren’t getting enough pressure on the QB or our secondary isn’t getting it done (depending on which scheme is being used). One thing is for sure, I think going up against pass happy teams like Eastern and Hawaii will help down the stretch. Both Eastern and Hawaii threw everything at our secondary by now. I did like how coach Holt went with 2 LBs and 5 DBs for parts of the game. I’d like to give out grades to our units, but I keep telling myself this is Hawaii from the WAC. This is a team we should dominate. I’ll hold off on grading our units until after I see what we can do vs. Nebraska. Would be sweet to be 3-0 after next saturday. Hopefully Sark and the staff have the kids full attention and we are ready to play. It will require a A game performance. No excuses for losing…
All I saw was purple
Nebraska 17.5 point favorite
Bob Condotta is reporting Nebraska has opened as a 17.5 point Favorite seems high to me. I think our run defense is fairly stout – our pass defense sucks however not sure if Nebraska can exploit it. I think our O can move the ball and score – I am taking the points. Go Dawgs!!
I think we have our work cut out for us
It might be high. I’d take Nebraska in this contest. Huskies are talented but not clicking like a well oiled machine- not eve close. Take the home team.
All I saw was purple
So you are taking Nebraska and giving 17.5 points - you are Crazi - GO Dawgs!!
by lorenzothedog on Sep 11, 2011 4:29 PM PDT up reply actions
I don't gamble and no nothing of "point spreads"
All I’m saying is that from what I’ve seen so far, we have our work cut out for us and at this point, I would take the home team. I don’t even know what point spread means.
All I saw was purple
Bummer...
Because us gamblers got to be especially estatic at the Truf Scoop-Score because it put UW over the point-spread.
It'll be interesting to see...
…if the DAWGS put the ingredients together for a winning formula against Nebraska. They did it in the Holiday bowl but obviously this is a new year. We are definitely missing Mason Foster.
Washington Husky Football-"Hear the bark, feel the bite!"
No One Panic
Nebraska 17.5 point favorite
I have a plan for just this contingency.
All I need is a jet, the key to the R Street Runza, four hundred pounds of laxative, a vintage He-Man lunchbox (the one with Skeletor on one side and Beast Man on the other), three Oregon Duck cheerleaders, and a Lone Ranger mask.
Just a guess...
The cheerleaders and the mask are for “after glow” portion of this diabolical plan, no?
It must be He-Man.
We’ll be switching it with Bo’s; they need to be identical.
by Bugs Dodger on Sep 12, 2011 2:04 PM PDT via mobile up reply actions
3 points for homefield
So Vegas is saying Nebraska is 2 touchdowns better then we are right now. I’ll be interesting to see how we react to a run heavy team after seeing so many throws the last two weeks
couple thoughts
Very impressed with Price. Can he be better absolutely, but he is still very raw. looking forward to watching him grow. DB’s showed vast improvement. C+ is probably right, but it was so much better.
I was concerned that the Oline couldnt finish off Hawaii with some first downs in the fourth quarter. Is anyone else concerned about this?
Best game Aguilar has had in a couple years. The WR’s as a whole are becoming what we have all hoped.
Nebraska is still the better team but I feel much better about competing with them than I did a week ago.
O-Line
I was concerned that the Oline couldnt finish off Hawaii with some first downs in the fourth quarter. Is anyone else concerned about this?
We’ll see how the season progresses, but going into the game Hawaii’s front seven was considered a real strength. So take that FWIW.
I felt like the O-line this season was going to be a work in progress. I didn’t think they were great last year, but they did seem to improve. And I expect as this group plays together more that they will improve. But I think we’re a year or two away from Championship-level O-line play. The Cascade Front is the foundation for Sark’s program moving forward, and they are only in their second season – it takes time for linemen (generally speaking) to develop and become the physical specimens needed to dominate.
Price
Can he be better absolutely, but he is still very raw
In my mind, 18-25, 315 yards, 4 TD’s and 1 Int. is pretty dang good. Yes he will continue to improve (which should scare our opponents), he doesn’t look raw to me.
"Winning isn't everything, it's the only thing."
"Legends are made on the shores of Lake Washington"
Yeah, I don't think I'd call him raw, either.
He needs refinement. Quite a bit, but that’s a far cry from being “raw.”
I think refinement might even be too strong
I’m very interest to see how he does this week against a top secondary, but so far he has done an excellent job. He could use more experience, but so far he has played exceptionally well for a RS-Sophomore.
"Winning isn't everything, it's the only thing."
"Legends are made on the shores of Lake Washington"
I know that feeling
Words are NOT my strength!
"Winning isn't everything, it's the only thing."
"Legends are made on the shores of Lake Washington"
My final post on UW's defense (for this week)
To sum up what I’ve been trying to convey (but I’m not the word smith to say it well enough):
On third down, there should only be one objective, get off the field. I think an important issue that is holding us back on defense is the coaching staff not putting the players in a position to make the play. I think we have the talent on defense to be better than we have been, but the defensive coaching staff are not enabling the players to excel and make more plays.
"Winning isn't everything, it's the only thing."
"Legends are made on the shores of Lake Washington"
risk vs. reward
I get what you’re saying, but the goal isn’t strictly to get off the field on 3rd down – it’s to win the game. There’s a risk vs. reward factor you have to consider. Sure, we could have played tight man coverage on those 3rd & short plays, but if those plays frequently result in getting burned for 20-30 yard gains, is that really better than conceding a 5 yard gain that converts the first down but burns time off the clock?
When we have a full compliment of talented & healthy corners, let’s see how that affects the play calling.
Speaking for no one but me,
I get what you’re saying. But there’s a large element of risk in playing man-to-man. Instead of the 8-yard completion, you have a larger risk of giving up 30 or 40 yards, or even a TD.
The offense has every advantage. Without a full compliment of corners that have A) blazing speed, and B) good instincts, even moderately talented receivers have an advantage because they don’t start out running backwards like corners do, and they know what they’re going ahead of time instead of reacting to it.
It’s risk vs. reward right now. It isn’t pretty, but it’s the best option the Dawgs have. The goal isn’t to get stops on third down, it’s to win the game. That’s what’s happened two Saturdays in a row so far.
Holt and Sarkisian have been clear that they want to play more aggressive defense. If the Dawgs are able to land a couple of the corners that they’re heavily in play for, let’s see if it doesn’t happen. And soon.
God bless you
and for having pity on the rest of us.
Support our student athletes, have faith in the coaches! "...it's how you play the game!"
Do you ever add anything positive to our conversations?
"Winning isn't everything, it's the only thing."
"Legends are made on the shores of Lake Washington"
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