Oregon's Consultants: Instant and Irrational Reaction
by Gekko Mojo on Mar 3, 2011 5:50 PM PST
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PrintYahoo Sports is running a story today, as predicted by Colin Cowherd, that Oregon has paid over $30,000 to two men tied to many recent Oregon recruits.
ESPN Story
Yahoo Story
Gekko's instant reaction (following the jump):
No doubt Oregon fans are hoping that this is all there is. However, experience has taught us that the first story is always the tip of what is inevitably a larger iceberg. There is a small army of investigative sports journalists who are going to start digging into every recruit ever touched by the two men in question. There is a larger army of reporting media that is going to hound, analyze and pontificate about this story from every angle imaginable. There is an incredibly cynical NCAA headed by a former Husky who are going to want answers and who will be under pressure to mete out discipline. There are state officials who are going to want answers as to whether or not laws were broken by a man (or men) who are on the state payroll. There are hangers-on who will want to tie this to the deep pockets of Phil Knight and use this story as stepping stone for making a public name for themselves. This is, truly, just the beginning.
2. Oregon Fan denial
This is Oregon Fan's worst nightmare. In many ways, it would be easier to digest this if everything came out all at once, players lost their eligibility, coach and AD get fired and life moves on. But, that is not what is happening. The first story is a small volley. Oregon fan will first enter the stage of denial. They will insist that this is all there is and that this is only a big story because Colin Cowherd made it so. They will then evolve to argue that "everybody does it" and, in fact, none of the players affected were ever going to go to another school - they all wanted to come to Oregon as a first choice. Second, they will move to deflection. They will argue that there are far more egregious issues out there and that, in fact, this is the fault of college football. Once more comes out and the truth becomes an inevitable and unavoidable force, the less naive among Duck fans will acknowledge the plague on the program. The die-hards will debate vociferously and the debating fans will begin to turn on one another. Eventually that anger will be focused on the external culprits until, finally, the administration and key boosters get implicated. Acceptance will come at the end as it dawns on all involved that Oregon is still, well, Oregon and that they have been on a sliding slope for quite sometime leading to what will become a devastating reality ... a nothing-special program that will get to experience the joy that all Dawg fans felt under the Hedges regime.
3. Bad day for Pac 12 football
While we might get a temporary satisfaction in knowing that "we were right" about the Ducks all along, the truth is that this is decidedly a bad day for the Pac 12. Oregon was an exciting, high-profile alternative to USC in a league that was known as the Pac 1 plus everyone else. Now our two best teams over the past 20 years will be regarded as cheats, no matter what is eventually proven as fact and what is demonstrated as fiction. This taints us all.
4. Mike Belotti
I can't wait to see how the role of Mike Belotti gets painted in this whole affair. Was he the puppet master who made the initial decisions that led to this point or will he be shown as the guy that was unwilling to play ball ... eventually leading to his ouster in favor of the guy with fewer scruples?
I know that all of this is jumping the gun and I'm sure this will stoke Oregon Fan ire. Let me just say that I respect Duck fans and I know the discomfort of being put in this position. Still, this is a blog, I'm a dawgfan and I can't help but to have an "initial reaction".
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I thought that the story was going to be run by Sports Illustrated.
I saw that SI had the report on players with a criminal history. Was that all that SI had to offer? Or could SI have more informatioin coming down the pipes?
Where there is smoke, there is fire!
All the NCAA needs is a reason to begin digging, and I think they just got it.
"Winning isn't everything, it's the only thing."
"Legends are made on the shores of Lake Washington"
Finally got a chance to read the ESPN story . . . .
Yahoo Story – Ya, somebody might be bending the rules, ala Slick Rick
ESPN – Uh Oh!! Far more damning then the Yahoo story. Oregon is about to invaded by the NCAA. How the hell do you pay a guy who is the “recruiting advisor” of a potential recruit $25K and expect it to be no big deal??
Oregon fans: Are you sweating yet? You should be . . . you’re about to take it in the a _ _.
"Winning isn't everything, it's the only thing."
"Legends are made on the shores of Lake Washington"
replace then with than
Where’s that edit button???
"Winning isn't everything, it's the only thing."
"Legends are made on the shores of Lake Washington"
I've been on their thread for this for about an hour now
and they keep sweating more and more as details come out. They’ve been pretty good to me over there so far though.
the ATQ crowd is good people
Damn, my eyeball tastes good.
by Gekko Mojo on Mar 3, 2011 11:14 PM PST via mobile up reply actions
You sure?
I would not jump to conclusions just yet. Obviously we will be getting the NCAA ramrod if it turns out anything illegal occurred, as we should. That being said, Oregon has this payment right out in the open for all to see. What exactly is the violation, as of yet?
Maybe this makes the NCAA change their policy on third-parties, but I don’t see anything at this point that leads to a violation.
the amount of the payment appears to be pretty far beyond the scope of anything anyone else pays...
… Phil Steele today on the radio said that he subscribes to eight national services in order to get tape on everyone and doesn’t pay that much to all of them combined.
The amount paid is what will trigger the investigation. When investigations start, things tend to go well beyond the first accusation – especially when kids, parents and bitter “street agent” rivals start getting quoted.
I also love this attitude that “its out in the open”. UW’s compliance department also cleared Rick Neuheisel to participate in bball pools before initiating the ridiculous he said/she said bullshit that ensued after that debacle.
At the least, this is already a stain on Chip Kelly who continues to struggle keeping shit together in offseasons.
Damn, my eyeball tastes good.
Well said.
"Winning isn't everything, it's the only thing."
"Legends are made on the shores of Lake Washington"
Don't confuse perception of the amount with the rules...
I am not debating whether or not the amount seems excessive either in comparison to other payments for similar services or simply on its own. That is only a matter of opinion. My point is that the amount of the payment is immaterial. They could have paid him a million or a dime; the violation would have something to do with the whether or not he is considered a “booster” or if he handed the money to the kid.
Also, Oregon paid 18k to another service, and there is a well-known company that charges 40k for a service. You have to remember not to confuse what your personal opinion is on the idea of paying a recruiting service vs. the actual act of a recruiting violation.
What I mean by “out in the open” is that the payment is for everyone to see. They put it right on the paperwork, which makes it more likely that they can come right out and say where it went and what for.
I’m not defending or attacking the actual idea of paying a recruiting service. That is only a matter of opinion (and YES, I think it seems sleazy). I’m just looking at this from the viewpoint of a judge in court rather than whether or not I think it “feels” right. I think that makes sense.
I think we are on the same page ...
… all I’m saying is that this first issue is likely the first of more issues and that the reason Oregon is getting the press on this versus a more high profile school like Texas, Alabama or Ohio St is that there are likely more irons in the fire awaiting future publication.
You seem to be arguing that this is the only issue and, by itself, is not worth getting worked up about. These are separate points, no?
Damn, my eyeball tastes good.
And what would be proof?
If the player does not say that these guys steered them to Oregon, then I think the conversation is over. I cannot imagine why a player would say that, so I am not particularly worried as a Duck fan. The only other party that could factor in is Seastrunk’s mom, who cannot even tell the truth about not being involved in her son’s life.
by netminder82 on Mar 4, 2011 11:47 AM PST via mobile up reply actions
That wouldn't be the end ....
… by a long shot.
. Rivals to WIllie will get interviewed – they will point out possible sources of evidence
. Parents and high school coaches will get interviewed. They will certainly have different sources of evidence
. Certain documents will be asked for (without any authority to ask for them) – especially bank records with a focus on ensuring none of the $25k ended up in a kid’s hands. The sharing of these documents will be automatic if the transaction was cash or if there is no wrongdoing. They will not get shared if there are issues, and that will raise more suspicion
. Rival coaches will have their input as it is likely that they have a) been solicited and / or b) been exposed to parents/coaches who have shared relevant information with them. Those interviews could lead to the discovery of evidence
All of that effort just on this one issue.
I’d also keep in mind the issue of “institutional control”. Oregon is in the news a lot when it comes to off-the field stuff. It doesn’t take a ton of incidents to accumulate before the NCAA steps in and starts handing out labels. Their incentive to move on what they do know is, in part, related to the number of “unprovable” accusations that are piling up in their office. The NCAA is an association, not a court. They don’t have the kind of burden of proof on them that you think is necessary for them to take action in enforcement of their by-laws.
Damn, my eyeball tastes good.
Good points for sure.
I just think we will be fine, and I am not always the optimistic type. I just want to reach a resolution in the near future because it gets old reading endless media speculation with no particular information. Sports journalists now seem to believe that rumors of rumors pass for reasonable journalism.
by netminder82 on Mar 4, 2011 8:48 PM PST via mobile up reply actions
LOL - good point...
… on journalists. However, the more rumors out there, the more mini-investigations get started. When people look, they tend to find. How confident are you that Oregon is above reproach?
Damn, my eyeball tastes good.
Now that is a question.
Honestly? I am 50/50 on the issue. It is usually my assumption that major college sports programs are doing something borderline against the rules if not completely out of bounds.
Do I think UO is doing this to some extent not seen across the landscape? No. But I do understand now that we’re under the microscope so it really doesn’t matter whether or not what the Ducks are doing is common or not.
Suffice it to say that my fingers are crossed extra hard.
they'd better be crossed
Any objective look at the Willie Lyles situation screams “impropriety” – they amount vs. what he likely delivered (at least in terms of what he supposedly was, a recruiting info service), the fact the amount was exactly what it needed to be to fall below bidding requirements by the state, the timing of the payment, and all of the whispers that have been floating around for some time by those in the business, those in Texas and now Seastrunk’s mom. There’s waaaaaay too much circumstantial evidence here for this to not be a dirty situation.
And now that the NCAA has a reason to come snooping around the Oregon program, watch out. It’s not like Oregon hasn’t had their fair share of secondary violations in the last 10-15 years (apartments for tickets, coaches forging signing documents), and it’s not like there haven’t been a lot of arched eyebrows around the conference regarding the role Nike has played in the recruitment of players (i.e. how they’ll be “taken care of” once they graduate).
Frankly, it’s easy to revel in schadenfreude on this given all the grief Husky fans have taken from Duck fans about NCAA sanctions in the past – it’s your turn to get rolled in the mud and the duck shit now, and I’m going to laugh my butt off watching.
by kirkd on Mar 5, 2011 1:24 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
I would not include Seastrunk's mom.
The article in the Portland Tribune last year is a good indicator of her reliability. She can’t even own up to the fact that she was not always a part of her own son’s life. The fact that she would try to contradict Lache’s own life story while also decrying that Lyles took advantage of him makes me sick. Sounds like an opportunist to me.
by netminder82 on Mar 5, 2011 3:36 PM PST via mobile up reply actions
Right
and the potential is there. What I wonder about, in general, is her credibility regardless of what she tells investigators.
Then again, Jose Canseco turned out to be a reliable source.
I have a feeling she'll be more of a small piece than a star witness
Lyles competitors, rival or former College coaches and high school coaches will provide far more damning evidence.
Rec'd
For a great summary and a GREAT conclusion!
Frankly, it’s easy to revel in schadenfreude on this given all the grief Husky fans have taken from Duck fans about NCAA sanctions in the past – it’s your turn to get rolled in the mud and the duck shit now, and I’m going to laugh my butt off watching
That’s got to be the best way to describe how Husky Nation feels.
"Winning isn't everything, it's the only thing."
"Legends are made on the shores of Lake Washington"
JB you should be an investigative journalist.
I seem to remember you posting something about this a few months back. Impressive.
"If you want your dreams to come true, don't sleep in."
December 21st
Thanks…where there is smoke there is fire.
UW Dawg Pound - SBN Seattle
by John Berkowitz on Mar 4, 2011 10:50 PM PST up reply actions
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