Oregon at Washington: Post Mortem
by Gekko Mojo on Nov 6, 2011 5:23 AM PDT
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Well, that stunk. While we wait for JB to put together his grades, I thought I'd get this post Mortem thread up for you all to commiserate. Some thoughts to spur your creative juices:
... While our duality in terms of pass blocking vs run blocking has been discussed before, I doubt anyone saw this coming. We were helpless against their frequent blitzing. While a number of you jumped on Kohler (rightfully so), I was left wondering what the hell Drew Schaefer was calling in terms of assignments at the line. Clearly, he was fooled and was not getting any help from Keith Price (who I only can remember actually pointing out a blitzes once or twice)
... I love Jermaine Kearse. I haven't forgotten all he's done for the program. But, Good God, he's becoming Chuck Knoblauch out there. I don't see how Kasen hasn't beaten him out.
... Why isn't Kevin Smith a DB?
... We held Oregon to below average offensive production. The primary reason was our ball control offense which, despite it's inability to score, was fairly effective. The other culprit? Limited big plays. We didn't surrender any home runs while generating some decent pressure in the passing game. We obviously have a long way to go talent wise, but we now have the formula to beat Oregon. We really can't blame Holt for much from last night.
... Speaking of which, the secondary had a pretty good game helped out by a few Oregon drops. They were out on islands a lot of the time and held up. Will Shamburger continues to impress.
... LaMicheal James outplayed Chris Polk behind far superior offensive line play.
... Where was Austin Seferian-Jenkins all night? I only recall one target.
... I'm not calling out any QB controversy, but, damn, that was a beautiful throw by Montana coming in cold.
... Kasen Williams is the best WR on this team right now. I'm not sure it's even close if you don't count blocking.
... I like our chances against USC despite it being on the road. They are starting to get worn out by the grind of the season and I am starting to believe that our D is slowly getting itself together. Hopefully Sark can get the O-Line disaster figured out this week. 9 wins is still in our grasp.
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Well, I'm gonna have to do something about this formatting. This is odd.
Damn, my eyeball tastes good.
@chrislandon
I didn't care for our secondary play
We left too many guys open and it’s not their fault zero receivers dropped the ball. What I can’t figure out is what is our corners seeing when they spy perimeter run coming their way? When you see it, you are suppost to take the outside shoulder of the on-coming block of the receiver, hook him so that the ballcarrier must turn the play inward, where the corner has help.
What did I see? I saw our corners dumbfounded in what the thought they saw. I saw Oregon receivers step up aned textbook block them like they were getting mugged on the street. Either we don’t have great cornerback talent on the roster or we simply don’t have the right secondary coach to teach them. Went to bed last night with the vision of No.21 turing the corner on me all night. We have to expect better cornerback play from either the student or the teacher, because that was terrible.
All I saw was purple
You are Crazi
Dropped balls helped, but they did their jobs.
Damn, my eyeball tastes good.
@chrislandon
Third and nine to Poulson..
Guy was wide open, right in front of three guys. One of them, at least, should have driven on the guy (in the interval while DT was targeting, and lining up, and throwing, and the ball was traveling rather leisurely 35 yards through the air) and blasted him to kingdom come. They’re so damn slow to react, I wonder what they’re watching, and what their keys are.
That's just it
Our defensive back reaction time is very slow. Look at the way our corners play run support in perimeter run. We are getting mugged and mauled by freakin’ receivers. We aren’t attacking outside-in. What we are doing is not reacting quick enough to what our vision is telling us, thus we find ourselves in no-mans land, simply because the receiver is draped all over us. Either our corners aren’t processing information fast enough or we aren’t teaching that part of the position.
All I saw was purple
Oregon's receivers are really good blockers.
That’s like half of their job.
I understand they are really good blockers
But they are still receivers, who don’t come with a lot of leverage. They apply leverage because they’ve been taught to. During the offseason our corners must be taught how to offer run support because if you cannot contain the outside, their simply isn’t anybody else on their outside shoulder. They have to be taught how to defeat the receiver hedge block, hook him inside and take away the ballcarriers perimeter path. The ballcarrier will see the perimeter is cut off and turn up field. If our LBs are doing their job of taking the proper angle of pursuit, we blow this damn thing up. When are we ever going to learn that Oregon’s bread and butter is perimeter run. Their RBs are Nip fast and if given the opportunity will exploit that speed around the corner. You are not beating Oregon unless you take that away.
All I saw was purple
Corners aren't suppose to stop the run
Defensive ends and linebackers should be containing the run. Relying on a corner to stop LMJ is like hoping your catcher hits 40 home runs. Anything you get from your corners against the run game is just a bonus.
by Edgar for Pres on Nov 6, 2011 3:58 PM PST up reply actions
that's not entirely true
When a team is running their backs out to the edges, the corners absolutely play a part in stopping the run game. Our corners didn’t do a good job evading/shedding blocks, both on WR screens and toss sweeps.
Yeah they have some role but if you expect a corner to tackle a running back one-on-one you are going to lose most the time
When linebackers, safeties and linemen aren’t getting over there because they are slow, do a bad job of anticipation or can shed blocks then you won’t be able to stop the sweeps. If Chris Polk only had to go up against corners on pitches and sweeps he’d have 10,000 yards.
WR screens are different I think because you have a WR with no forward momentum that is relatively the same size and strength as a corner which is a more fair matchup against a corner.
by Edgar for Pres on Nov 6, 2011 4:09 PM PST up reply actions
we had dropped three deep and were blitzing
… I don’t think that was an assignment issue as much as a bad call.
Damn, my eyeball tastes good.
@chrislandon
Their jobs consist of run support too
Especially critical on the perimeter. Our corners were exploited in their inabiltiy to turn the play inward all night.
All I saw was purple
Gekko...
our passing offense was atrocious last night. Darron had wide open receivers and he threw a shitty ball or the wide receiver just flat out dropped the ball.
Oregon hasn’t had a lot of continuity on offense this year. This was an improvement for DT over the WAZZU game, so hopefully the passing game takes another leap forward against the furd.
"I love Oregon's obsolete recruiting report on an unhealthy level. Just more proof how balla Chip Kelly really is." Dr. Saturday
I Hate Stanford
Yet as a realist, I think you gotta’ have a perfect game to have a shot at returning from the Farm, as victors next Saturday.
by The Dude 4 Real on Nov 6, 2011 8:38 AM PDT up reply actions
Agreed...
if that 6’8" TE is still dinged up and OWUSU is out, we probably have a more of a margin for error. I think Tiololo will probably play knowing Stanford has let OWUSU come back after consecutive head injuries. I am getting less concerned about their passing attack as time passes.
"I love Oregon's obsolete recruiting report on an unhealthy level. Just more proof how balla Chip Kelly really is." Dr. Saturday
Oregon's passing offense is rarely a strength. Its the nature of how you recruit.
Damn, my eyeball tastes good.
@chrislandon
Oregon's passing offense...
will be dynamic. It’s been an unintended consequence of our recruits not panning out (Dante Jackson, Gaines) and not intentional. We hauled in a very dynamic class with Blackmon, Kelley and Sumler redshirting. Blackmon is as good as it gets.
"I love Oregon's obsolete recruiting report on an unhealthy level. Just more proof how balla Chip Kelly really is." Dr. Saturday
I don't see how...
… you are gonna keep recruiting run first QBs and the high potential WRs are going to see little value in going to a run first spread option program.
There is no such thing as a perfect system. There are always tradeoffs.
Damn, my eyeball tastes good.
@chrislandon
There is no such thing as a perfect system. There are always tradeoffs.
Gekko, I don’t know how salient this is to recruiting. Go look up LSU’s wide receivers and tell me how the hell they get the top receiver or close to the top receiver in every recruiting class. Randall was the top in his class and last year they got Landry. In any case, Oregon’s success is going to breed top recruiting classes.
In all honesty, I don’t think we need blue chip WRs like your boy Williams. Our run game and play action is going to make our pass offense very efficient. We are #12 in the country right now in passer rating and we’ve had two walk ons in our two deep. We have lossed 6 scholarship WR in the last 3 years just off the top of my head: Pflugrad, Jackson, Gaines, Embry, Cantu and Cole. It’s alarming the number of guys that for a myriad of reason haven’t been able to play.
We just need our schollie guys to pan out, which Chip is doing a far superior job in that department.
"I love Oregon's obsolete recruiting report on an unhealthy level. Just more proof how balla Chip Kelly really is." Dr. Saturday
Besides,
We’ve recruited Bennett (offers: BSU, Pitt), Mariota (UW, Memphis and Alabama came courting later in his senior year) and this year Rodrigues (USC offer) and Lockie (SDSU). Rodrigues was invited to the elite 11 camp and is considered a pro style qb that can run.
"I love Oregon's obsolete recruiting report on an unhealthy level. Just more proof how balla Chip Kelly really is." Dr. Saturday
Seondary wasn't the problem
UW Dawg Pound - SBN Seattle
by John Berkowitz on Nov 6, 2011 10:04 AM PST up reply actions
they were OK
But they didn’t play the outside WR screens well, nor did they tackle that great. And Paulson was given way too much of a cushion on the two big plays to him.
As much as anything, Oregon’s offense stopped themselves last night.
Agreed.
"Winning isn't everything, it's the only thing."
"Legends are made on the shores of Lake Washington"
Hopefully Garnett and Banner
were watching the Dawgs futility at pass blocking and realized they’d have a great opportunity to play early, and perhaps even start as true freshmen.
I'd be interested to see a fleshing out of this "formula" that the Dawgs are working up.
Yes, you had a ball control offense going for one short field drive in the first half, but really, what is this formula of which you speak?
That the Ducks only had 22 offensive plays in the first half was attributable almost entirely to return yards gained on the two interceptions and the long KO return by DAT.
Forgive me for thinking that a combination of surrendering short field drives to the Ducks and playing keep away while behind is not a very potent formula for beating Oregon.
It’s exceedingly strange watching the Huskies climb out of the mire. Last year I was impressed by your DL. This year they were nothing. Last year, Mason Foster was a beast. Now? You have no one on the D who needs to be marked every play.
I still really like Price, but his O-line is going to get him killed one of these days. Polk is a beast, but he can’t block for either himself nor for his QB. Some of your wide outs make me envious, and some of your other wide outs are just as stone handed as ours.
Overall, Sark is doing better than I ever thought he would. He’s come a long way from my early estimation of him as one of Carroll’s “yes men,” who was made to look good by a bottomless stockpile of USC talent. He clearly has chops. It’s also a shame that your proud program is OTJ training for him as a HC. He calls games erratically and seems prone to panicking when the game plan goes out of the window.
Holt is overpaid. Period. It is easily seen in the poor fundamentals on tackles, poor pursuit angles, and in letting our stone handed former fourth string QB run wild and drop three passes with no defenders in the same zip code. Hawkins is just not that elusive.
Eventually, of course, you’ll break through and end this streak, but I very much doubt it will be the end result of a perfected formula.
It’s far more likely that you’ll instead incrementally increase your overall team speed, simply compete straight up doing what you do, and one day out-execute the Ducks through the final whistle.
I’d say you have a decent shot at doing just that in 2013.
Roses Ain't Orange!
Thanks for the analysis - good job - I agree with your points.
Maybe 2013 will be our year.
by lorenzothedog on Nov 6, 2011 7:08 AM PDT up reply actions
Formula
I like how you Duckers are completely incapable o anything resembling authentic humility. Whatever. The formula is clear, control the ball, limit big plays, win the field position battle and score when you get the chance.
I’m in no way claiming we can execute it against your athletes, but, be honest. You can’t say that we were not executing elements of it. You weren’t able to stop us from dominating the ball time. You punted four times. You had zero to the house plays. You had defenders pressuring your QB. You had a pedestrian 3rd down percentage. You got a ton of yards on broken plays where LMJ reversed field (beautifully) and made something up.
But, whatever. I’ll feed your ego. OREGON IS THE BEST THING TO HAPPEN TO COLLEGE FOOTBALL SINCE BRIAN BOSWORTH. THERE IS NO STRATEGY THAT CAN STOP THE FORCE THAT IS THE OREGON OFFENSIVE SCHEME. IF JESUS PLAYED FOOTBALL, HE’D PLAY AT OREGON SO THAT CHIP KELLY COULD BE HIS NEW FATHER. I AM SO THANKFUL THAT THE DUCKS AFFORDED MERCY TO UW WITH ITS CONSERVATIVE GAMEPLAN AND IT’S GRACIOUS GUEST COUTESIES.
There, do you feel adequately stroked?
Damn, my eyeball tastes good.
@chrislandon
Part of what you saw yesterday...
was our young defense coming alive. Last year the Huskies improved dramatically on defense and Oregon is in the same boat this year. Dion Jordan is still relatively new at his position and he is getting incrementally better with each game. Likewise, Heimuli has had an ankle sprain since day one of fall camp. Keliikipi was held out of fall camp a lot as well with back pain. Those two have been getting healthier. Keliikipi had a monster game yesterday.
As for the game plan, I think it’s more of a function of WA getting better athletes. The gap was closed to 17 point last night and the more athletes WA gets the more the gap closes. Shirley, Kearse and Parker all look the part but probably should be getting second team reps due to experience.
"I love Oregon's obsolete recruiting report on an unhealthy level. Just more proof how balla Chip Kelly really is." Dr. Saturday
Your D was lights out.
I was really impressed with the blitz schemes.
Damn, my eyeball tastes good.
@chrislandon
Courage to admit the truth
“OREGON IS THE BEST THING TO HAPPEN TO COLLEGE FOOTBALL SINCE BRIAN BOSWORTH. THERE IS NO STRATEGY THAT CAN STOP THE FORCE THAT IS THE OREGON OFFENSIVE SCHEME. IF JESUS PLAYED FOOTBALL, HE’D PLAY AT OREGON SO THAT CHIP KELLY COULD BE HIS NEW FATHER. I AM SO THANKFUL THAT THE DUCKS AFFORDED MERCY TO UW WITH ITS CONSERVATIVE GAMEPLAN AND IT’S GRACIOUS GUEST COUTESIES.”
Gekko haz it.
:)
If ya can't get your Dick Enright, get your Dick Harter!
All you need to know about me
is that the vast majority of my posts here are not intended to be taken seriously. Since I don’t derive any employment from college football, it’s all about the entertainment and a heated rivalry is definitely a big part of that.
If ya can't get your Dick Enright, get your Dick Harter!
So . . .
you are Oregon’s version of Crazidawg??
"Winning isn't everything, it's the only thing."
"Legends are made on the shores of Lake Washington"
Gekko: I think the formula is...
To continue to upgrade our talent to Stanford and Oregon’s level. Furthermore we have to continue to develop the talent on our roster. The team the zeroes beat last night is still relatively light on it’s feet and play that way. We are young and we are not executing nor are we applying the same amount of leverage in order to effectively execute our assignments. Oregon is at the top of their game, they have everything installed as a program. We’re not to that point yet, but we’re getting closer.
Canard, it seems to me that you are forgetting where this program was 3 years ago. It was evident and clear that we didn’t have the same type of players on our roster that other Pac 10 teams were accustom to having. We’ve been upgrading talent since this coaching staff came on. To say anybody is overpaid is completely nonsense. To be 4-2 in the Pac 12 and 6-3 overall is a huge accomplishment considering where we were in 2008. Currently this staff is on pace to surpass Harbough’s remarkable building project. Look at the numbers…
Harbough: 1-11 to 4-8 to 8-4 to 11-1
[Before Sark arrived] the coach who shall not be named went 0-12
Sark: 5-7 to 7-6 to currently 6-3
All I saw was purple
I wasn't looking for stroking just more facetiousness I guess.
I thought you were going to be honest about last night. My mistake. If hoping a QB drops the ball on the turf, giving up mega return yardage, and then getting dominated in the second half is a game plan, I’m not sure who’d want to copy it.
Your “formula” is the generic recipe for beating nearly every team extant. I would, however, defy you to demonstrate who hasn’t dominated the TOP stat against us. We’re a solid 120th in that category.
Yes, I’ll readily concede that you briefly executed elements of an actual winning, albeit wholly generic, game plan.
We don’t need home runs to beat teams. It certainly helps, but six sacks, +2 on turnovers, and 90 yard TD drives are more reliable.
Roses Ain't Orange!
yeah, I think I said that we lacked the athletes to execute it.
Damn, my eyeball tastes good.
@chrislandon
Are you suggesting that it is impossible to stop Oregon if another team has the required athletes?
is there no strategy for attacking your offense? This is how you are coming across.
Damn, my eyeball tastes good.
@chrislandon
Actually
I’d disagree. One of the best ways to stop Oregon is to stop big plays. We’ve seen this again and again. Oregon has trouble sustaining long drives, mostly because their offense is composed of almost nothing but slow-developing plays and we have a ton of negative plays a game. When you’re regularly facing 2nd and 10 or 3rd and 8 you start causing Oregon to punt. Oregon is one of the best in standard downs but is one of the worst in passing downs for that reason.
So yes, stopping explosive plays and getting the Ducks to have to run long drives is a Big Deal.
Time of possession only matters in reducing the total # of drives in a game for both teams. If you’re a good team this does nothing for you. If you’re a bad team this is a good choice as you can rely a bit more on luck; the fewer drives Oregon has the fewer chances they get to regress to the mean and the more each drive means. Oregon will never care about winning ToP. They might want to run time off the clock at the end of a game to end that game (like they did against UW at the end of the night) but they will not care about it.
The most critical thing to do against Oregon is to get any kinds of turnovers. Punts, fumbles, interceptions, field goals (especially missed ones) and the Huskies did a very good job of that; 4 field goal attempts (2 missed), 4 punts and only 4 TDs. That is a very good way to stop the Ducks overall. Not perfect, but it’s there. And one of the best ways to do that? Not give up the big play.
It was definitely the best game I’ve seen the Huskies play against the Ducks in quite some time, on both sides of the ball. I do think that the score was somewhat misleading (Oregon if they had wanted could have scored on their last two possessions) but at the same time the game was within one score for the majority of the time. Kudos.
Disappointing game for sure
Seems like we just couldnt get our offense and defense clicking at the same time
I totally disagree with LMJ out playing Polk. In fact I’d say just the opposite. LMJ might have had better stats but I thought Polk showed exactly why he’s a better overall back by picking up a lot of yards after contact. Not saying LMJ isn’t great but he got most of his yards by running around people. Polk got most of his by running through and over people.
I am afraid you are in denial...
Just because LMJ is faster and more elusive then Polk doesn’t negate the fact that LaMichael fought for many of the yards he gained. He had more 5-6 yard off tackle, grinder type runs then you are crediting him with.
If you can honestly say you think Polk outplayed LMJ then we weren’t watching the same game.
#7... GO BLAZERS!!!
I don't understand the need for this conversation...
Polk is a great back. LMJ is too.
"I love Oregon's obsolete recruiting report on an unhealthy level. Just more proof how balla Chip Kelly really is." Dr. Saturday
That's it ..thank you for some sane words!
all I’ve ever thought was as an ex player I can appreciate the differences and I see them. Both great backs in some very different ways…the debate of who’s better is a waste of time when they are almost polar opposites…and it doesn’t prove anything anyway…homers will rarely challenge their own beliefs with “threatening facts” that don’t feel good. It is a game after all….
yeah. two different backs, two different offenses
but LMJ made more plays out of nothing that Polk did. No question.
Damn, my eyeball tastes good.
@chrislandon
Excellent! This is the correct conclusion.
Both are great running backs, but it is near impossible to objectively compare them given that the surrounding teams are so very different.
by HuskyInExile on Nov 6, 2011 11:44 PM PST up reply actions
LMJ had a great game
Anyone who says he didn’t is fooling themselves…he is a great back…and he is faster than Polk…who is better…I think they are both pretty equal but an NFL scout would take LMJ because of the extra burst.
UW Dawg Pound - SBN Seattle
by John Berkowitz on Nov 6, 2011 10:08 AM PST up reply actions
Pretty sure you're wrong
LMJ also picked up a lot of YAC. Yes, he was 4 yards down the field when he was getting hit instead of at the line of scrimmage, but saying that LMJ got pushed back is a bit disingenuous.
NO quarterback controversy? Actually there is -
The controversy is why doesn’t Sark play his backup qb during the game as Don James did, and not just during mop-up times? James would put his backup into the first or second quarter for a series. But Sark is afraid of a controversy? Then he says it’s all about competition? I like Sark, he is a great coach, but sometimes ….
After living throw the Crowton years...
when you have two qbs, you have none. Price is your guy. Montana came in and threw a nice pass. However, he also threw in an int and gave up a fumble. Trust the coaches. They see who is more consistent day in an day out.
"I love Oregon's obsolete recruiting report on an unhealthy level. Just more proof how balla Chip Kelly really is." Dr. Saturday
Montana only threw one pass.
He was only in for one play.
I meant when he came in previous games...
I have actually watched you guys this year.
"I love Oregon's obsolete recruiting report on an unhealthy level. Just more proof how balla Chip Kelly really is." Dr. Saturday
He's come in cold both times and been neutered by play calls
Not that Keith has done ANYTHING to lose his job, but I think the gap is a lot closer than we all thought after KP lit up our first 5 opponents.
I think you need to go watch a few more practices if
you think the gap is close. There is still a clear difference between KP and NM.
I think was the last 3 weeks have shown us is that Keith was in top form for the first half of the season
he’s had his regression to his mean, which is significantly closer to Montana than what he led everyone to believe. I’m not saying Keith isn’t better, and by a decent margin (which I happen to think is due to his extra practice and not talent), but it’s not a Locker/Fouch situation.
I disagree
The quarterback position is a huge source of leadership for any team and dispersing that leadership in the name of competition is not a winning strategy.
Competition occurred in the Spring and Price won out, deservedly so. I want one guy calling the plays in the huddle and if sark says at gametime that price is his guy, interception or not, we gotta stick with him.
No QB competition necessary IMo.
thisjustinlee.wordpress.com
by JLee2025 on Nov 6, 2011 11:33 AM PST via iPhone app up reply actions
Why would you take Price off the field? What other team with a good starting quarterback rotates in a backup?
Don’t say LSU, because both of their QB’s are terrible.
that's not true
DJ played his backup when the game was in hand, or hopelessly lost (which was rare). The exceptions to that were rare, and only in the cases where the difference between the starter & the backup were minimal. I watched every home game from ‘78 on, and every televised road game, and I can say with certainty that DJ didn’t have a preconceived system of always playing the backup QB regardless of the score.
Both teams seemed
to not be capable of catching ANYTHING. I’m pretty sure Oregon had more dropped passes than the huskies even. I honestly think Oregon would have won by more if Bennett had started.. Thomas just can’t make the throws he should this year. I heard that he didn’t put in much time in the off season. If that’s the case it is certainly showing this year. But the gap is certainly closing. LMJ did most of his running against the grain and certainly not going with what was drawn up. Thus the offenses switch to the quick pitch in the second half to give him a chance from farther back to let his vision do the work. Hats off to Holt, who seems at times like a waste of $650,000, he game planned pretty damn well.
I wondered if this wouldn't happen when Montana came in...
and cold as a fish…dropped in that beautiful deep ball, and right as they were setting the down markers down field…in again came Keith.? I thought at first, let’s see if this isn’t the needed “spark” that lights the fire and gets us back in it! But, now I’m suffering doubts about recievers I love…who just didn’t mentally show up when it mattered most! This truth hurts most! Keith put it right on the money more than a couple of times when it was the hottest in the kitchen! So F-ing deflating! and mental! Good news? It is fixable ! (if dealt with honestly)
Oregon fans at their finest?
Some damage last night on campus: http://i.imgur.com/54bxp.jpg
by Northwest Purple on Nov 6, 2011 10:34 AM PST reply actions
flagged for impromptu suspension of budding diplomatic relations
"What you are entrusted to do as a coach is to create an environment where your players have a chance to be successful." CHIP KELLY
Good point!
We’re long past due for a little thaw in this cold war.
by HuskyInExile on Nov 6, 2011 11:48 PM PST up reply actions
one other observation
i’m glad now that alejandro maldonado decommitted and decided to play for the zeroes. was he injured or has his leg been that week all year?
I watch every game with a hispanic guy...
and he keeps muttering during the game about how his leg is a disgrace to his race.
"I love Oregon's obsolete recruiting report on an unhealthy level. Just more proof how balla Chip Kelly really is." Dr. Saturday
The best part about UW ‘icing’ him before the half was that every duck fan knew he couldn’t kick it that far in those conditions.
Life is about growth. People are not perfect when they're 21 years old. - Bill Walton
by NEP on Nov 6, 2011 7:51 PM PST via iPhone app up reply actions
yeah, the icing was a personal message from Sark to Maldy...
… and it was pronounced “FUCK YOU”
Damn, my eyeball tastes good.
@chrislandon
by Gekko Mojo on Nov 6, 2011 8:15 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
haha
i didn’t necessarily expect him to make it, but i thought he could at least get it far enough
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