Grading the Game - Oregon State
Quarterback - Nick Montana simply didn't get it done in relief of Keith Price. It wasn't all his fault because Sark didn't do him or the team any favors with the way that he called the game. If Keith Price starts the game and simply hands off to Chris Polk 35 times Washington wins this game by a couple of touchdowns. Same thing if Montana starts but Sark is too impatient to crunch it out on the ground (more on that later). So if Keith Price is capable of playing why did Sark put him in the game and risk his health when the contest was all but lost? This is definitely the low point of Sarks career at Washington...a humbling loss that is completely on his shoulders rather than his players. - Grade F
Running Back - The Huskies could have easily ridden Chris Polk to a boring victory but Sark decided he didn't want to win without the style points earned in the passing game. The result was that Polk was basically abandoned in the second half when the Huskies fell hehind and only gained 109 yards on 25 carries...give him the ball 10 more times and the Huskies win this game. You have to question Sark's crappy play calling. - Grade C
Receivers - Montana was terrible beyond 7-10 yards with the exception of the botched ASJ (potential) TD grab so we didn't really get to see the strongest unit on the team get a chance to really compete today. ASJ's botched TD catch is half the reason the Huskies lost the game. Kasen Williams' botched catch/interception at the goal line was another prime reason for the loss. The super frosh cost UW 14 points! - Grade D Minus
Offensive Line - These guys continued to suck against one of the worst defensive lines in the country. Nick Wood is the best they could do when Colin Tanigiwa went down with a torn ACL? He is the first guy off the bench..yikes! That doesn't speak well of the rest of the players who comprise the Cascade Front that was recruited two years ago.- Grade F
Defensive Line - There was push at times but it was inconsistent. These guys continue to disappoint on a weekly basis. How much of it is coaching and how much of it is unmotivated talent? OSU picked up most of their decisive big gains when Washington was stunting. Looks like Holt's calls were pretty easy to read today.- Grade D
Linebacker - If everyone on the UW defense prepared and played like Cort Dennison this would be a top twenty five team. That being said the two guys playing next to him (Timu and Fuimaono ) are absolutely terrible on a weekly basis. They tackle like a couple of grade school girls...ooops...sorry to defame grade school girls. One of the worst performances I have seen all season from this group. - Grade D
Secondary - Take a deep breath...the Quinton Richardson era only has another game or two left until he leaves the scene and enters the history books as the worst Husky CB since Chris Massey. Trufant stunk it up the entire first half and was pretty much responsible for the first 14 points the Beavers scored. - Grade F
Special Teams - Husky special teams provided excellent field position for the Beavers and terrible filed position for the Dawgs. On top of that the usual accurate Folk badly shanked a FG try that would have provided a lot of momentum. - Grade - F
Coaching - To me this is the type of game that helps coaches and athletic directors ( hearing me Scott Woodward?) lose their jobs. Tough to tell if it was Steve Sarkisian or Paul Wulff on the Washington sideline today. It was a completely inept job of preparation and play calling on both sides of the ball.
Sark didn't have a clue when it came to calling plays on offense. He took a small and terrible sample of Nick Montana and decided to put the game on his shoulders rather than hammering the ball continually with Chris Polk which would have won the game. Sark doesn't have any patience and that lack of patience cost the team a win today.
Question of the day - If Keith Price is health enough to play and play well enough to win with why wait til till the game is almost out of reach to put him in?
Defensively the Huskies were terrible giving up big play after big play to one of the countries worst offenses. How many missed tackles did you see today? Is that coaching, scheming, or talent? You can't put that all on the kids. They may be young but they shouldn't be this terrible. - Grade Triple F Minus
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Not even close at this point...
The team isn’t mentally into the game.
UW Dawg Pound - SBN Seattle
by John Berkowitz on Nov 19, 2011 9:26 PM PST up reply actions
Agreed
The last two games have been depressingly flat emotionally. And mentally – absent.
Always giving 110% while taking it one comment at a time.
by FullTiltPolker on Nov 19, 2011 10:04 PM PST up reply actions
I just don't buy that 35 Polk carries was an automatic victory
At some point, they needed to be able to make plays in the passing game and largely were not able to. They played poorly and deserved to lose. This team can’t win by just running the ball, not with their defense.
Putting Price in was bizarre and spoke to desperation. That didn’t make any sense.
Except that
Had Williams made abetter play on the goal line, there is a real chance they would have won the game.
A distinct lack of football players making football plays.
If you want to win, you need guys to step up and make a butt-load of winning plays. Heady plays, effort plays, athletic plays. And we’re not getting any. The lack was from all over the roster. Young guys, old guys, offense, defense, special teams. Nobody making plays. It’s like they’re just going through the motions, like joyless automatons.
They look whipped.
by Hawnk on Nov 19, 2011 9:36 PM PST reply actions 1 recs
It would not have needed
to be many. Two or three plays in the right spot would have been good enough.
Guy not blocking and guys getting blocked
We just aren’t getting it done as a team on either side of the ball.
UW Dawg Pound - SBN Seattle
I just read some of Sarks comments
Sounds like the whole team is frustrated. A very difficult time. Sooner or later, this moment was going to show up. We will learn a lot about our young coach in the next few months.
This game has just crowned
Ty Willingham II for the world (and all west coast HS talent) to see. I could see this coming but did not want to predict it, given the chance UW players would respond to playing a NW rival. I contend much of this team has quit on Sarkesian. Next week will tell.
I wouldn't go that far
The team isn’t playing with any emotions, not playing together. This is very talented team, but this isn’t a very tight group right now.
All I saw was purple
And whose fault is that?
A talented team?….yes indeed. A well coached, schemed and prepared team?….absolutely not! I contend if the OSU and UW teams would have swapped coaching staffs last March UW would have finished 9-3 at worst this season….and competed well in the games it lost.
A very young and physically overmatched OSU team played much better than UW against Stanford, for example. Their front seven plugged holes, their secondary pressed/blanketed/tackled receivers, their OL blocked and their “skill players” played as hard as they could against a seasoned, superior team.
Poor coaching and game day preparation will discourage any team. I wonder what Joe Montana was thinking as he viewed this game from the stands?
Nobody quit
Key to the loss was the injury to Price….they are a completely different team with him at the controls.
UW Dawg Pound - SBN Seattle
by John Berkowitz on Nov 20, 2011 8:42 AM PST up reply actions
Price doesn't play on defense...
and a helpless defense has killed this Husky team’s chances to win games all season. You cannot count on outscoring an opponent week after week. Sooner or later opponents will figure out how to beat an offense, which has been the case the past several games….even with Price at QB.
38 pts and 484 yards by a Beaver team that had only scored 27 combined pts in its last three games? No excuse for that. NONE!
by Saltherring on Nov 20, 2011 8:57 AM PST up reply actions 1 recs
I agree
you can’t blame this in not having Price. As you said, overcoming 38 points is going to be tough for any offense.
by PurpleHaze11 on Nov 20, 2011 12:37 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
No but does the defense play off the effectivness of the offense?
The defense stills sucks, but at times I’ve seen them play off the effectiveness of the offense. Would we have served up 38 points if Keith was the starter?
All I saw was purple
How many OSU points was the offense responsible for?
Think about it….
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by John Berkowitz on Nov 20, 2011 1:44 PM PST up reply actions
I do not think
this team is talented at all. I think without Price they are below average in most areas, and especially at QB. They are very young, have some injuries, and are not nearly deep enough. I did not see anyone quit, and Sark said there were tears in the locker room after the game. That does not sound like quit to me.
Tears don't win games
or excuse continued poor play. Other teams get much more from less talent.
Sarkisian is running a pro-style offense which is always going to require a greater degree of talent and execution.
It’s also going to be highly effective once we reach that level of quality, not to mention its appeal as a recruiting tool. If you don’t think that every blue-chipper and even the three- and four-star guys have aspirations of going pro, I’m not sure you’re totally tuned in. Sark will get his horses. In the meantime, developing the studs he does in a consistent system is paramount to a single game, or even a single stretch of games, discounting the goal of bowl eligibility (and its recruiting implications) of course. You weight the benefits of long term success with the costs of getting there in a situation like this.
That said, it seems (didn’t get to see the game; had to work) the play calling was just patently bad. No defense for that (not that I even want to defend it) or for Holt’s squad playing like dog crap. Changes of some kind need to be made, but I’m confident in the direction the offense and the program as a whole are heading.
Teams (for foreign blogs): Seahawks, Mariners, Huskies and Broncos. Yes, I recognize the contradiction; I was born in Denver.
by THolt on Nov 20, 2011 4:13 PM PST via iPhone app up reply actions
Ty Willy the 2nd? Really? Somebody needs a hug...
The difference between top and bottom in this league is always pretty damn thin. Thin enough so the `bad’ teams can usually beat the `good’ teams, if the `good’ teams play a bad game.
Dawgs are just thin. And young. They look exhausted. Can’t out-coach exhausted. All you can do is rest up and start over.
Exhausted?
Huh? “Exhausted” is totaly wrong! Unmotivated, depressed, flat, banged-up – these are the corect descriptions. Young guys in the best shape of thier lives are not every “exhausted”, until maybe the 4th quater. And even then, it is only those who not in good shape. And if they are not in good spape, who’s fault it that.
No, Hawnk, you got this one figured out all wrong. Our multi-million dollar coach payroll is not even worth $1 right now. As JB tells us, FFF is the coaching grade Sark & Co. get now.
by The Dude 4 Real on Nov 20, 2011 9:13 AM PST up reply actions
Semantics.
Exhausted, unmotivated, depressed, flat, banged up. Whatever. They’re out of gas.
It’s not about being in physical shape. It’s about roster depth, expectations, disappointments and recovery. Or lack of same. This is a thin roster, still, and the guys they ride are only marginally good enough to win, at best, in this league. There’s not a lot of star power on this roster. The guys are not stepping up when given the opportunity.
Exhausted?
We play the same amount of games as everyone else. Why isn’t OSU “exhausted?”
by PurpleHaze11 on Nov 20, 2011 12:38 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
That was a three game gauntlet they just finished...
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by John Berkowitz on Nov 20, 2011 1:45 PM PST up reply actions
Gauntlet?
Suddenly Arizona is part of a gauntlet?
by PurpleHaze11 on Nov 20, 2011 2:10 PM PST up reply actions
Yes it is, when it's in the middle of Stanford Oregon and USC.
Whole Pac-12 schedule is a beast. No horrible teams. Lots of pride and athletes. You go funky, it’s hard to get well.
Those with no point begin to argue semantics and nitpick.
you know very well that Stanford, UO and USC was his point.
If that's your definition of a gauntlet
then we got one coming next year, too. I can’t wait for the excuses about being exhausted then.
by PurpleHaze11 on Nov 20, 2011 2:24 PM PST up reply actions
What's your definition then?
Assuming LSU, Oklahoma and Alabama are otherwise occupied…
We got Stan, OR, and USC
in a 4 week period next year
http://www.gohuskies.com/sports/m-footbl/wash-m-footbl-futurescheds.html
by PurpleHaze11 on Nov 20, 2011 3:03 PM PST up reply actions
A rapidly increasing minority
UW Dawg Pound - SBN Seattle
by John Berkowitz on Nov 19, 2011 10:12 PM PST up reply actions
Instant gratification
isnt quick enough these days. I still think it takes a few years to build a major college football program from scratch. There are always ups and downs, very high (USC, twice, Nebraska, etc.) and lows this game. An ugly day, but there will be others.
Hampered by the fact we can't get JC's to qualify..
frankly… I’m not happy with the staff. Hate the outcomes, but this fire the staff business is just retarded in my eyes. It’ll do more damage than good.
but I sure as heck ain’t gonna come on here and defend them, but I’m not happy. Not one bit.
by supercanuck on Nov 19, 2011 10:24 PM PST up reply actions
No can't fire Sark
It wouldn’t do any good. We just are not that good of a team yet, with a healthy Price we are ok, but not where all of us want us to be.
Fire Holt, this must happen now! Before the Apple Cup. I have protected Holt every week, not now. After watching OSU run the same pass route on third down and 4th even, a 5 yard crossing route over the middle, yet Holt can’t put a defense out there to defend that. That was piss poor. Just now Oregon St managed way more running yards against us than in their last 3 game combined. This team lost to Sacramento St and they bullied us. Destroyed everyone on our D line except big Taamu, linebackers still can’t tackle yet Timu and Princeton still start? Is it just me or did our D play better after the Cal game when Timu was injured? What the hell Nick Holt, put Kearse and Gilliland in the game instead of these two clowns! Holt needs to be fired Monday, give him Sunday to get his shit and get out of his office! Bald headed bastard!
by datboyeddiep on Nov 20, 2011 6:16 AM PST up reply actions
Gilliland
did not even suit up. A couple guys got hurt in the first quarter. They ran out of players.
Holt put a few different defenses out to defend the crossing route over the middle
none of them worked. I thought Holt yesterday, called a better game than he did against EWU or UH. He mixed his blitzes decently and quite a few times our DB’s were in the right spot to make a play on some of those WR screens. The guys just didn’t tackle, couldn’t get off a block or made a bad read on the play. Holt has to be held accountable, but not more than any of the position coaches or the guys on the field. This was a team meltdown.
Go watch it again. Notice Trufant misread a WR screen, or Timu running right into his pickup on a blitz. Watch how many time Holt blitzed and where he brought pressure from. Most of the big plays were not from the play call.
Agreed
I’m not calling for a coaching change. But I do question our effectivness as players and coaches. Are we teaching the fundamentals? Defense comes down to tackling and taking the proper angle in pursuit and we just don’t have any of that or we simply don’t understand that. Coverage is killing me. How can we still not cover a receiver at this point in the season. It’s not just one player that the opposition is picking on. We have lapses of mental breakdowns when it comes to coverage. I’m convinced that we are not spending enough time in flm session as a defensive unit. Every member of the secondary should know what routes to look for come saturday and practiced defending those routes all week long leading up to the game. Part of playing in the secondary and being good at it, is knowing the route and how to effectively defend the route. We aren’t doing that from my perspective. You can’t go with just athletisism at this level. You have to study route running and I don’t think we have done enough of that.
All I saw was purple
How Many Lows?
For craps sake, how many times have I read people claiming that we have only just hit a “low-spot” this season, as can be expected, and still be optimistic? This entire season has sucked! Not one convincing win, and a lot of get your a$$ blown off losses.
by The Dude 4 Real on Nov 20, 2011 9:16 AM PST up reply actions
Going bowling "sucks"?
Man, some of you need a reality check. Of course we’re all disappointed in the loss yesterday, but let’s take a step back and remember that this program, which went 7 consecutive seasons without a bowl, is now going to bowl games in back-to-back years.
The rebuild of Husky Football may be taking longer than some of you wanted, and it’s TBD whether Sark will get us to Rose Bowl contention on a regular basis, but let’s get a grip.
We all understand that
But this team not only had the potential to win 8 or 9 games during the regular season, it had the talent whether you choose to believe that or not. Winning 6 or 7 again is not acceptable for most of us. Oregon State was pretty much laughable this season and their is no excuse for losing this game.
I think we all would come to terms with losing to Oregon, Stanford, and USC. We’re not ready to take it to that level yet. But Oregon State? We have no business losing to the Beavs, when they’ve been down right awful this year.
All I saw was purple
winning 8 would have been as good as could have been reasonably expected
Personally, I figured a 6-6 season this year would have been adequate given the personnel lost and what we had to replace them.
This team has talent in certain areas and some major flaws & liabilities in other areas. I’ve always figured 2012 was going to be the first “good” year under Sark, and 2013 should be even better. I still feel that way.
Mainly, I’m countering the ludicrous idea in the post I responded to that “this entire season has sucked!”
bowling doesn't suck
but having the potential of playing like the Mildcats of 2010 doesn’t bode well for our psyche.
Wazzu will come out loose with nothing to lose but their coach possibly and if we are “tight” again AC will be no bueno.
I think we'll win a close one
Lobbestael is not a great QB – if it had been Tuel I’d have been worried, and slightly worried, but I think we’ll rally and get the win.
Add me in.
The coaching decisions magnified the poor play of the guys on the field, and the poor play of the guys on the field magnified the poor coaching. It’s not time to blow anything up, but nobody can afford another clunker like this next week.
Even I don't want to see anything "blown up"
But making a few key changes in the ranks would be for the best of the program going forward.
"Winning isn't everything, it's the only thing."
"Legends are made on the shores of Lake Washington"
Do you think a coordinator worth hiring is going to come here...
…without having serious input on who his position coaches are?
Firing Holt will very likely mean blowing up the defensive staff.
I have faith in the Head Coach.
I do NOT have faith in the rest of the staff.
"Winning isn't everything, it's the only thing."
"Legends are made on the shores of Lake Washington"
by Lear Pilot on Nov 19, 2011 10:20 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
I still think Sark can get it done
but he really has to evaluate this staff.
Cozzetto has had success before. He should be good, but the o-line has often stunk it up. Nussmeier seems to do ok with Price, but you’d think Montana would have a better game. That one play where Montana got the intentional grounding? I mean, why didn’t he at the very least take a look at his RB who was swinging out to the left? He just panicked. I think the QB needs to be better prepared than that. Our RBs seem to do ok, so I can’t fault Thomas too much. Maybe Dougherty needs to go. The WRs consistently drop balls and don’t hold their blocks. But I don’t really know what goes on behind the scenes.
As far as the defense goes, that’s where most of my frustration lies, and I would not oppose cleaning house. In regards to that, the main thing I worry about is recruiting, not a worse performance from the D—because, how would that even be possible?
105th defense in the nation. 112th against the pass. That says it all.
by PurpleHaze11 on Nov 20, 2011 12:45 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
Montana was getting his first start, and he's a freshman.
He didn’t panic anymore than Price did last year at Oregon, they had similar games actually. I don’t see how not having a Frosh ready to light the world on fire in his first start is grounds for calling out Nussmeier.
by B Money on Nov 20, 2011 1:01 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
How much help did the offensive line give Montana?
I’m just asking…
UW Dawg Pound - SBN Seattle
by John Berkowitz on Nov 20, 2011 1:48 PM PST up reply actions
About the same amount
Price got the last few games. And Price looked bad, just not as bad as Montana.
by PurpleHaze11 on Nov 20, 2011 2:01 PM PST up reply actions
So all of our QB's need to perform at the same high level then?
You know that we’re not USC? We can’t get all top flight QB’s to come in and fight it out. We’re just not that program, and Montana proved to be a quality backup (with tons and tons of room to grow).
We have two top-flight QBs
coming in next year.
Montana is not a quality back-up, but I’m not going to blame him for the loss.
by PurpleHaze11 on Nov 20, 2011 2:13 PM PST up reply actions
Except he is...
Montana had a decent outing. He flew some passes and threw a bad pick. He also had 2 TD passes and found his checkdowns on a fairly regular basis. Again, it was his first start. Price had a similar outing against Oregon last year, only take away the TD’s and INT.
Montana will never start at UW
we will have Derrick Brown, Lindquist, and (hopefully) Miles backing up Price
by PurpleHaze11 on Nov 20, 2011 2:25 PM PST up reply actions
Both of those "top flight" QB's are ranked nearly the same as Montana
both have inferior offer sheets as well. I have high hopes, but don’t just pretend like he was some chump who rudy’d his way into the lineup.
I'm not advocating for making changes
But if their are vacancies this offseason, I would hope that those vacancies were in the defensive backfield. We just don’t understand how to play those positions very well. We can’t cover, we do a piss-poor job tackling, and we offer very little run support to the perimeter.
All I saw was purple
Not going to get any argument on that one.
"Winning isn't everything, it's the only thing."
"Legends are made on the shores of Lake Washington"
If you have faith
in Sark, you need to have faith that he will make good decisions, pick the right guys and continue to improve.
That's my one remaining question about him as a head coach.
I’ll have my answer by mid January.
"Winning isn't everything, it's the only thing."
"Legends are made on the shores of Lake Washington"
As long as . . .
I have a few heads on platters, I’ll be happy.
"Winning isn't everything, it's the only thing."
"Legends are made on the shores of Lake Washington"
These kids make some very good plays
but almost no key plays, game changers. There were a number of chances, and seemingly no success, except maybe Price on 4th and 10. I am getting so I dread third down. We never seem to come up with they play.
My concern looking forward is young guys NOT stepping up.
Not really embracing their opportunity and slobber-knocking some guys. They’re not showing progress, like they belong in this league and intend to star in this league. There’s not nearly enough `Wowzer’ moments. Parker’s had a couple, Shamburger a couple. ASJ and Williams, of course. And obviously, Keith has been great, thank God.
But for the most part, the young pups are steadily getting worked over, and there’s a lot of them out there taking a lot of snaps. You expect them to struggle early on, but you also expect them to get better. That improvement is the part that’s missing here,
I think they are improving
but you are right about big plays. I noted to my son as we were watching today that Williams has not really done much, and right after that Jenkins drops what could well have been the game winner, and not long after that came a terrible fumble and on and on. Bummer! At any point in the third quarter, a couple decent plays and we win.
Get Real...
Given the talent disparity UW should be manhandling this Beaver team, not expecting true freshmen to step up and win the game for us.
Talent disaprity?
Not as much of a disparity in talent between the two teams as you would think. We recently broke a six game losing streak to the Beavers.
UW Dawg Pound - SBN Seattle
by John Berkowitz on Nov 20, 2011 8:46 AM PST up reply actions
Talent Disparity Found!
The talent disparity is on the sidelines, in a bunch of over-paid, failing coaches. Our players are NOT the problem here.
Now I know Sark is a young head coach, and that he is prety darned good and smart man too. But what worries me is his stubborness (which is the nicest way I describe Sark’s biggest issue). So while Sark has lost my support in the past few weeks, I still think it is less risky to see if this guy can evolve for the better, and take a chance on a new head coach.
by The Dude 4 Real on Nov 20, 2011 9:22 AM PST up reply actions
I am not advocating Sark
be replaced at this point, but he has to fire Nick Holt and possibly some other assistants during the offseason. For all Holt’s visibility and energy, the UW defense is utterly clueless.
Has to fire Holt after that performance
And that’s coming from me. I’ve been an advocate for Nick Holt. I think Sark can be great but he must do what needs to be done.
by datboyeddiep on Nov 20, 2011 11:45 AM PST up reply actions 1 recs
He doesn't `have to do' anything.
He might decide to, but not on any foot-stamping tantrum from clueless idiot fans…
Fire Holt Club
I still haven’t joined because it isn’t going to happen after this season. I could see a couple of assistant positions upgraded…but my gut says there will be no changes…I’m not sold that changes have to be made at this point either.
UW Dawg Pound - SBN Seattle
by John Berkowitz on Nov 20, 2011 1:49 PM PST up reply actions
What is it going to take???
We just made Mannion look like a Heisman candidate and let OSU rush for more yards than they had in their past 3 games!! We gave up 484 yards to a 2-8 team. After three years we should see better tackling, better understand of assignments, and better ability to play zone coverage. Enough is enough.
"Winning isn't everything, it's the only thing."
"Legends are made on the shores of Lake Washington"
you'll have to convince Sark
I really, really doubt Holt is forced out this off-season. So prepare yourself.
I'm pretty sure this "clueless" fan
knows a little more about the Huskies than you. If you have been watching or paying attention all season our defense has struggled. I continuously have backed our DC throught thick and thin, but not anymore. That was a pathetic performance by a underperforming defense. Nick Holt’s schemes put players out of position play after play.
This is not from a clueless idiot, this is from a real Husky fan. If Sarkisian doesn’t fire Nick Holt this year, he will be fired next season with Nick Holt. You can quote me on that. Sark will get fired because of his defenses poor play. Plus Sark isn’t looking to hot either as of now. Holt must go, iot is what is best for the program.
by datboyeddiep on Nov 21, 2011 7:26 AM PST up reply actions
I'm getting real
Seems like people can’t handle it. I’m telling you, if Sark can’t pull the trigger on a guy that CANNOT gameplan worth a DAMN we will continuously lose. We will never be elite. We will always be a middle to bottom feeder team. FOREVER! I’m a Dawg, I’ll still be a Dawg regardless, but this is being real. A lot of Husky fans can’t handle truthfulness and the truth is our defense sucks. Badly. Our offense has got to perform almost flawlessly in order to win games. We need a defense to be elite. Holt is not the guy, I’m sorry, it is a fact. If Sark can’t fire his buddy, Sarkisian will get fired. When we continuously show no growth on the defensive side of the ball he will be forced to fire Holt. If that is the case and he is FORCE to make a change, and that change doesn’t work out, he will be gone also. That’s being real.
by datboyeddiep on Nov 22, 2011 3:48 AM PST up reply actions
we will lose?
Correct me if I’m wrong, but we’re going bowling for the 2nd straight season, just 3 seasons removed from 0-12.
Unless the program craters next year (highly unlikely), Sark is here for at least 3-4 more years. The talent and experience is lining up for a better year next year (i.e. 8+ win territory), and even better after that in 2013.
Short of some kind of major NCAA violation or off-the-field transgression, Sark is not getting fired from the UW anytime in the next few years.
How much longer are the young guys going to be "young?"
We have a solid class next year, led by Lindquist. I’m not sure how the O-line class is, but unless we just got damn unlucky with the Cascade Front, you have to foresee improvement up there. The number of big time programs in on Porter and Koehler suggests that there’s something there. That many qualified eyes are rarely completely and totally wrong. Plus, Otah!
Teams (for foreign blogs): Seahawks, Mariners, Huskies and Broncos. Yes, I recognize the contradiction; I was born in Denver.
by THolt on Nov 20, 2011 4:22 PM PST via iPhone app up reply actions
Same Old Story
There is a consistent theme on this post thread, not enough big plays. This has been the story of this program for years now. I keep waiting for someone to step up and make that big play. I keep waiting for this program to win that big game, to final take that next step and never look back. Every time we get close, we seem to take three steps back. I’m tired of it.
Unfortunately
Inconsistant play, three steps back at times, weird losses, all are part of a rebuild. The Dawgs are not very good right now, and what you describe is part of the territory. We could clean house coach wise, get a new staff, replace the head coach, what ever, and next year will likely be similar.
No way Sark is getting replaced
Just got an extension and with wins or not, his personality is the perfect fit for the UW athletic program. Even with Holt, whose contract runs one more year, I have a hard time thinking that the U will pick up his remaining $$$ to release him
thisjustinlee.wordpress.com
by JLee2025 on Nov 20, 2011 2:04 AM PST via iPhone app up reply actions
Love Sark. Perhaps needs to be a bit more of a hard-ass.
A little less Kumbaya, a little more fear of God. Particularly in training camp.
Talent and Experience
I those two areas our the key and over time you build enough of both to avoid games like this on the road.
UW Dawg Pound - SBN Seattle
by John Berkowitz on Nov 20, 2011 8:48 AM PST up reply actions
Perhaps [Sark] needs to be a bit more of a hard-ass.
I totally agree with you. I think this team needs to have more fire under their a$$.
Did you see Sark saying that the team “tried too hard?” What the hell does that mean?
by PurpleHaze11 on Nov 20, 2011 12:55 PM PST up reply actions
Harbaugh was a hard ass and a jerk...it seemed to work fine
…however if you think Sark is soft or the second coming of Neuheisel your sadly mistaken.
Tried to hard could be playing too tight which equaled playing too slow?
UW Dawg Pound - SBN Seattle
by John Berkowitz on Nov 20, 2011 1:51 PM PST up reply actions
Hard ass, players coach, cerebral, salty...
… whatever. Personality traits are meaningless. Intangibles are for losers. All that matters is talent, skills and scheme. Anything else is just us fans looking for something to bitch about.
Damn, my eyeball tastes good.
@chrislandon
by Gekko Mojo on Nov 20, 2011 4:55 PM PST via mobile up reply actions
they aren't meaningless...
…they are part of what makes up the dynamic of the coach and how effective he is in teaching and motivating his players. Which is not to dispute the importance of the coach actually teaching good football fundamentals for the position, but you can be the most knowledgeable teacher in the world and still suck at it if your personality is such that your players ignore you.
What is worthless is us couch-jockies making assumptions about what personalities our coaches really have. We can assume Cozzetto is a hard-ass based off of stories and seeing him at practices being profane and yelling, but we don’t really know the full extent of how he relates to his players. And we really have no good idea what the team actually needs in terms of personalities, coaching traits, etc.
If personality is meaningful, then what is the "right" personality?
…and how do you explain the relative success of different personalities like Pete Carroll, Jim Harbaugh, Nick Saban, Chris Petersen, Les Miles and Chip Kelly? What’s the common thread outside of talent (recruiting), skills (teaching) and scheme (strategy)?
Damn, my eyeball tastes good.
@chrislandon
many personalities can work
And part of what makes them work is coaches recruiting players that “click” with them and their staff.
I know you’re trying to parse out “talent” and “teaching” from what you consider an intangible – “personality” – but they are intertwined.
Have you really never met people that are brilliantly talented in a field but have horrible personalities such that they undermine their talent? And conversely people that aren’t brilliantly talented, but have charismatic personalities that get people to perform better than their “talent” would suggest?
People can't perform beyond their capabilities...
…if they achieve greatness, than they were capable of it.
All this other stuff is romanticism dressed up in hyperbole. It’s literal hogwash.
I do agree that talent can go undeveloped and that teaching has an element of inspiration to it, but there is no prescribed personality that draws it out best as was argued by the “hard ass” comment above. It is also something that I more in the control of the student than the master assuming the master is giving a real effort
Damn, my eyeball tastes good.
@chrislandon
I don't think we're saying radically different things
I don’t believe there is one personality type that is effective. I also think it’s absurd to say that personality plays no part in the effectiveness of teachers/coaches/managers.
A dash of discomfort about your status is a good motivator.
When you’re trying to develop talent (as opposed to just maintaining it), you need to inspire maximum effort and attention. Throw the jobs up for grabs, and be grumpy about it. Let the young guys feel like they are actually competing for something. And the old guys, too.
People can't perform beyond their capabilities?
Perhaps…. But collectively, they certainly can. The whole being greater than the sum of it’s parts. IMO, that collective integrity is something that is curiously missing on this team. I assume they all like each other, and their coaches, but they just don’t mesh on the field. Breakdowns here, breakdowns there, and they rarely seem to cover for each other. One guy gets beat, and then, instead of cleaning up the mess, the next guy whiffs too.
You're wrong on this, Gekko.
Interpersonal relationships play a huge role in performance. I know that you know this. Obviously,
[p]eople can’t perform beyond their capabilities
but all people are very capable of underperforming, and a student athlete placed in a high pressure situation may not be able to achieve the kind of success and learn at the same rate if he does not have an effective relationship with his coaches. Everyone has different learning styles and everyone who teaches has a different teaching style.
A university student and football player finds himself in new territory when the college years begin. This kid’s entire life, he’s been the bomb, but, in college, the curve starts over. He may have been the best of the best in high school, but now he’s just another kid earning a C. Some kids flail. Some kids accept mediocrity. Some kids rise to the top with hard work. And then there are the blue chips.
Those superstars are the players Sark and Holt had at SC. Those are not the players that they have here. I have honest concerns that they know how to effectively coach the kinds of kids they have on the team. I agree with posters like my brother Dude who contend that Sark is stubborn. I sense that, too, and I suspect that he may be stubborn with more than just with his play calling. I wonder if he is capable of the kind of dynamic coaching that will allow him to honestly work with the kind of kids he has now. If he can’t find a way to do that, I worry that he won’t be able to build Washington into the kind of successful program that will attract the kind of players he was once used to coaching. If that’s the case, things will just get worse.
Sark is our head coach. He is responsible for the entire team. I would not have cared if we’d gone 5-7 this year if the team had shown up and played the games that we lost. Phoning them in is not acceptable. Playing football to win — even if we lose — is how we learn. That’s how we get competitive. That’s how we gain confidence. And, if we don’t have the personnel to do it during the school week, that’s how we practice.
Showing up and refusing to play and letting the Beavers run us over is not acceptable.
We can’t fire Sark. Firing Holt would be not be wise, and it won’t happen anyway. Moreover, I promise you that the problems on that football field are far more profound than Nick Holt. Do not give him that much credit. We’re stuck with them both for now. They could work out, or they might be the [redacted] idiots from California whom I suspect them to be. I hope I’m wrong about them being hopeless, and I hope they get their act together, for the Cougars are coming for us and it does not not promise to be pretty.
I did not see
any player refuse to play. I saw a QB over his head, and a bunch of not particularly talented kids working hard to little avail. Working hard is not a gaurantee for success. In this case, they failed. But not from lack of effort.
Jenkins did not drop the pass on purpose, Montana did not throw in the towel and fumble, Williams did not give up the interception on the goal, and the field goal was not missed because the kicker did not show up.
Play Calling
I think you hit it on the head here John on the unwillingness to commit to the run. I don’t know if it’s impatience, lack of experience, or he’s just to quick to fall in love with the passing game, but Sark’s play calling in these situations is hurting us.
I go back (again) to what was promised at the end of last year and off-season: A tough, pounding run-dominated offensive philosophy. We just haven’t seen enough of that. There’s a lot to complain about from this game, including the D and the emotional intensity of the team, but I’ve come full circle to the point of thinking we need a full-time OC, and that Sark needs to be a full-time Head Coach.
I have been saying that all week
what Sark promised us. He damn sure isn’t doing it. Either way, with the way Montana was passing and the way our D was sucking, it wouldn’t have mattered. I mean our D was really bad.
by datboyeddiep on Nov 20, 2011 6:10 AM PST up reply actions
No argument there
The line play on both sides was mostly miserable too, but I still think we would have been in a better position to win yesterday with a committed ground game.
disagree a bit
We ran the ball most of the time in the 1st half, and that got us all of 14 points and trailing by 3. At most I would quibble with a couple of the drives early in the 3rd quarter where Sark went more balanced, but let’s remember that we weren’t exactly dominating the line of scrimmage and running at will on them.
Kirkd
I think it was the timing of the calls that tended to stall drives. Polk would rip off a nice gain for a first down and then we would have the traditional pass on first down.
UW Dawg Pound - SBN Seattle
by John Berkowitz on Nov 20, 2011 1:58 PM PST up reply actions
1st downs
Let’s review the plays:
In the first half we did the following on 1st downs:
12 runs
3 passes (one of which ended up a scramble for positive yards)
For me, really the only drives I would quibble with the balance of calls were the first two of the 3rd quarter before things got out of control and Price was sent in.
And even then, it’s not like we were dominating them with our run game. I can totally understand why Sark was not calling 80% running plays and mixing in some passes – I’m sure he expected Montana and the offensive line to execute better, and for ASJ to not drop a wide-open long gain/TD.
Totally agree.
In the first quarter+, with Tanigawa in the game, the Dawgs 1. played Montana under center, 2. used their interior traps (pulling Tanigawa), and 3. used the toss sweep pulling the left side of the line very effectively. 19 carries for around 125 yards. With Tanigawa out, the Dawgs 1. put Montana in the gun, 2. shelve any play that uses a pulling guard.
The running game completely changed without Tanigawa in there. Maybe it’s just a coincidence, but it sure seems like the run game went from very diverse and effective to basically zone read right, and zone read left. 19 carries for 37 yards the rest of the way.
I’d expect some fairly major shuffling on the line this week. Kohler played a lot of left guard in fall camp (he was an either/or there with Tanigawa for the first few weeks). It wouldn’t surprise me at all if he ends up moving there, with Hatchie getting the start at tackle. I’m not sure if Kohler is more mobile than Wood, but if he is, the running game might look a little better next week (that, and playing WSU….).
That game blowed
That was a horrible performance by coaches and players. Really piss poor. That may have cost Holt his job and placed Sarkisian on the hot seat. That was a depressing game. Go Seahawks! I don’t even feel like explaining the game. Poor defense is what lost that game. ASJ dropped a pass that was a for sure TD, Kasen made a bad play at the goaline also. But the defense lost this one, allowing one of the worse O-lines run all over them. Also is it just me or is Oregon St still running the same 5 yard over the middle route. You’d be surprised that you defensive coordinator couldn’t figure out they were going to pass it in the same place every play! Not if you are a Husky fan. Not only did Nick Holt continuously allow the same pass route over and over again while we sat in the same zone all day, he allowed more and more chunks of yardage each time OSU ran it. I have been one of the few to protect Holt all year, now he needs to be fired. And for Christ’s sake get Timu and Fuiamono out and put in Gilliland and Kearse at OLB.
At least we have Husky basketball, 9am pacific time Dawgs vs St. Louis on CBS College Sports channel. Let’s go Dawgs!
We have OSU on their own one yard line and we put a four man defensive front to stop them? What is Holt thinking?
OSU showed no respect to our defensive front down there
It’s not like they passed out to the flat. Mannion actually took a 5 step QB drop in the endzone (tiwice) and converted. Riley doesn’t respect our defensive front and to us, it should be a red flag that we have to get better on the defensive front. That pass completion from inside the 1 yard line out to mid field was the most critical play of the entire game.
All I saw was purple
Riley and Mannion knew the OSU OL could
protect against even an all-out blitz from an eight-man front, given the ineffectiveness of UW’s pass rush all season. Couple that with throwing into a secondary whose players are seldom within 5 yards of a receiver and success is inevitable.
I really do think UW has winning talent. But after getting pounded by the Trees, Ducks and Trojans, Husky players have lost confidence in themselves and their coaches….to the point they cannot even compete with teams they should dominate.
Holt is thinking they are throwong the ball deep?
UW Dawg Pound - SBN Seattle
by John Berkowitz on Nov 20, 2011 8:48 AM PST up reply actions
The only people who seem to know
what Nick Holt is “thinking” are opposing teams’ offensive coordinators.
by Saltherring on Nov 20, 2011 9:08 AM PST up reply actions 1 recs
Q-Rich
was one-on-one with the receiver. From what I saw, there wasn’t any safety help. I’d assume that with a 4 man rush there would be some help over the top. But there wasn’t. So what’s the point of dropping 8 guys back if you don’t have anyone helping Q-Rich defend the deep pass? Doesn’t make any sense to me.
by PurpleHaze11 on Nov 20, 2011 12:03 PM PST up reply actions
That would signal blown coverage
or a safety blitz. I’m sure it’ll be Holt’s fault either way.
by B Money on Nov 20, 2011 1:08 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
Remember in 2009
when ASU threw that long pass at the end of the game and we had blown coverage and lost the game because of it?
No way that could be Holt’s fault.
by PurpleHaze11 on Nov 20, 2011 2:09 PM PST up reply actions
Is that the best you can do?
one play from 2009. I don’t remember the specifics of that play, but it was likely Holt’s fault. My point was that if it was a safety blitz, you’d be pissed he sent pressure on the goal line. If it was blown coverage, Holt needs to coach the kids better (not Mills…who happens to coach the safeties).
I'm just saying
it is the coach’s responsibility to make sure the players are in position. If they don’t remember the play or they miss an assignment, that means the teacher didn’t do a good enough of job making sure they understood it. It’s like teachers who like to blame bad test scores on their students. Whose fault is that?
by PurpleHaze11 on Nov 20, 2011 2:16 PM PST up reply actions
Mills, Martin and Holt
I’ve never said any differently. What I’m saying (for the millionth time) is that all these guys deserve blame, and firing Holt only to bring in some FCS DC isn’t the magic fix.
This defenses blitzes don't create much additional pressure
So all they really do is take guys out of coveragel
Yep
Perhaps our blitzes are too easily read and countered….as they never seem to work.
God I was yelling that all day yesterday!
Stop blitzing and cover the 5 yd crossing route. Are you kidding me? They just got another first down on a 5 yd cross route, I hate you Nick Holt!
by datboyeddiep on Nov 20, 2011 9:55 AM PST up reply actions
They picked up the blitzes like clock work
UW Dawg Pound - SBN Seattle
by John Berkowitz on Nov 20, 2011 10:31 AM PST up reply actions
After the Hawaii game
people were calling Holt out for not blitzing enough. They were getting picked up. He didn’t just blitz the same guy all game, he mixed his pressure fairly well. At some point it’s on the player to beat the blocker. A DC does not solely cause a defense to give up nearly 40 points and 400 something yards.
Hhmmm . . .
When we don’t blitz, we get crucified. When we do blitz, the opposing team picks it up, and we get crucified. I’m sure it completely the players fault, they just aren’t good enough “bullets”.
"Winning isn't everything, it's the only thing."
"Legends are made on the shores of Lake Washington"
This is getting really old Lear
We all realize that the defense has under peformed. I’m sensing your the sort that just to pile it on. You don’t know a damn thing about blitzing so let it go.
All I saw was purple
Couldn't agree more.
This defense has gotten very, very old.
Tip: Try to bring something to the conversation, not just attacking the poster.
"Winning isn't everything, it's the only thing."
"Legends are made on the shores of Lake Washington"
This defenses blitzes don’t create much additional pressure
So all they really do is take guys out of coveragel
That really doesn’t matter because even when we drop 7-8 guys we still get carved up
by PurpleHaze11 on Nov 20, 2011 1:06 PM PST up reply actions
Well then we'd better fire Holt
I bet if we fire the guy who coaches them the least that they’ll probably get better in coverage.
Obviously . . .
They don’t know how to play zone coverage, they don’t know how to blitz effectively, they don’t know how to disguise a blitz. What in the hell is Holt doing all week long? These aren’t NFL players, YOU HAVE TO TEACH THEM HOW TO PLAY FOOTBALL. Good coaches turn bad bullets into average bullets, average bullets into good bullets, and good bullets into great bullets.
Which player has Holt turned into a better player than they should be???
"Winning isn't everything, it's the only thing."
"Legends are made on the shores of Lake Washington"
We have OSU on their own one yard line and we put a four man defensive front to stop them? What is Holt thinking?
That is exactly what I was thinking. What is there to lose by throwing the house at Mannion? We rushed 4 and got beat deep anyway. Unbelievable.
by PurpleHaze11 on Nov 20, 2011 12:04 PM PST up reply actions
+1 More
That 4 man only line, as every other D player’s first step was either sideways or back, really got me seriously steamed-up. Hence all the “Fire F’ing Holt” comments, which I still have no problem for being responsible for.
by The Dude 4 Real on Nov 20, 2011 1:37 PM PST up reply actions
But wait?
You were pissed that QR got beat without safety help? I deleted the game off my DVR, but if that was a safety blitz, does that change your mind? Maybe KirkD or Sundodger can take a look and see if the safety came.
If that's the case
then it’s more understandable
by PurpleHaze11 on Nov 20, 2011 2:18 PM PST up reply actions
All Day Long
There was just no pessure from the D-line, while we had them on the 1, not any at all. 4 D-line got stood up, and everyone else was running sideways and backwards, pretty much like chickens with thier heads cut off. Not calling for a safety blitz at all. Just wondering where the heck our LB’s were? An LB blitz is what I was looking for.
by The Dude 4 Real on Nov 20, 2011 2:25 PM PST up reply actions
That's not on Holt though
the biggest criticism I have of Holt is that his team didn’t play inspired. That’s on him and that’s a problem. But since they have in the past I’m not willing to crucify him over it.
He was thinking
if we hold here we can still win. The defense was set to stop a likely run, and the short pass, which is what would be expected. OSU ran an out and up. As usual, the UW got little pressure on Mannion, but they did rush four. Remember, the likely play here is a run. The way they ran the play, Qrich was one on one. At some point, players need to make plays. He did not. He was in position, then was beaten, game over. I do not care who the coach is, they do not make plays, players do. This play is on the player, not the coach.
How bad was it?
On the post game show Dick Baird said it was the worst game in the Sarkisian era and had nothing positive to say about the game – players or coaches. That says a lot. Millen called the game abysmal – OSU had no respect for our defense. Softy called the game disgraceful.
What does this game do for our recruiting – any thoughts?
If I was a recruit
I wouldn’t come here. I hope it doesn’t have that effect but the last two games were horrible performances by the players and coaches. I would not come here.
by datboyeddiep on Nov 20, 2011 9:56 AM PST up reply actions
You guys need to lighten up
It was one crappy game without Keith Price at the controls.
UW Dawg Pound - SBN Seattle
by John Berkowitz on Nov 20, 2011 10:32 AM PST up reply actions
Guess again!
1-4 in our last 5, only competitive against Oregon in those loses. And being competitive is me being nice…..
We have had 3 extremely bad losses. The last two have been inexcusable. It’s more than Keith being on the sideline, the whole team isn’t playing with passion. And the coaching staff has put together two of their worst performances since being in Washington. It is extremely bad and the time to lighten up was last week. This week the darkness has come! We should not expect to lose as a fanbase. We should expect to win! Definitely expect to beat OSU. Piss poor performance! I love the adjective “piss poor”, describes my crappy teams very well.
by datboyeddiep on Nov 20, 2011 11:51 AM PST up reply actions
Don't fool yourself
We were not competitive with Oregon. They could have ran up the score in the second half but they were happy to get on the bus and head down to Eugene to prepare for a real game
by PurpleHaze11 on Nov 20, 2011 12:00 PM PST up reply actions
That's what I meant by me being nice.
I really don’t buy the Oregon could have done more damage but it seems to be the concensus.
by datboyeddiep on Nov 20, 2011 12:05 PM PST up reply actions
Oregon could have put up...
as many points as they wanted against the Huskies. Chip Kelly simply didn’t want to embarrass his pal Sark.
I don’t recall PAC-10 coaches liking Don James. I do recall them fearing him and his teams, which all but yearly kicked the snot out of the Ducks, Beavers and Cougars.
by Saltherring on Nov 20, 2011 12:35 PM PST up reply actions
We looked awfully good vs. Oregon in the 1st half
Probably as good as anybody else in the first half. But like most humbled teams, Oregon took it to the house in the 3rd quarter. The Oregon game was one of our better performances from a defensive perspective. It got out of control, but who doesn’t lose control vs. the ducks?
All I saw was purple
We did not "look good"
Our offense was stalled pretty badly most of the time.
Probably as good as anybody else in the first half
You obviously didn’t watch the USC game last night
by PurpleHaze11 on Nov 20, 2011 2:19 PM PST up reply actions
I did watch USC beat Oregon
And I’ve come to the conclusion as you should also, that we don’t have the same type of athletes on either side of the ball. USC’s defensive front has the apperance of an SEC defensive front. Most of them are as big as a bus, but come with a peak physical presence. We are big as a bus, but we look more like we’ve been sitting around the dinner table too long. USC’s defensive front, like an SEC defensive front can run. We get tired because we are carrying excessive weight. I think it’s time we get these guys on a special diet and get them in better footbal shape. Size and weight is good when you can run. But when you can’t run, you become a blocking sled. That’s really what has become of our defensive front.
All I saw was purple
Well gee, we're not USC and we're not LSU
Let’s fire everybody and start over.
Answering The ?
Now was just answering crazidawg’s question, but now Hawnk has given this a twist. So yes., Hawnk, we are no where near LSU or USC yet. Nor are we any better than over 50% of all D-1 teams, along with several D-1a teams being better than us, and maybe even a D-2 team or two.
We lost to OSU, one of the worst teams in the PAC, after being blow-out in other games. Meanwhile, among our wins, none of them are impressive or even convincing.
by The Dude 4 Real on Nov 20, 2011 2:34 PM PST up reply actions
Another Berkowitz reply
with no explanation.
That’s baloney.
by PurpleHaze11 on Nov 20, 2011 2:21 PM PST up reply actions
Dude...
I have a lot to do today…hanging with my wife…going to Costco to shop for Thanksgiving dinner for 30…I really don’t have the time to spell it out on every single post…Ok…now that we have that out of the way…since you did ask…
Chip Kelly simply didn’t want to embarrass his pal Sark.
Baloney!
UW Dawg Pound - SBN Seattle
by John Berkowitz on Nov 20, 2011 2:29 PM PST up reply actions
Figured
That is what I thought you meant, JB. My reply to the idea of D-Bag Kelly taking it easy on Sark, is “bullshyte”.
by The Dude 4 Real on Nov 20, 2011 2:37 PM PST up reply actions
Most folks can put 2 and 2 together...
UW Dawg Pound - SBN Seattle
by John Berkowitz on Nov 20, 2011 2:49 PM PST up reply actions
You are disrespecting me
as a poster by implying that I cannot put two and two together. You need to be more respectful on this board that you accuse others of disrespect on.
Oregon could have put up more points on UW if they really wanted to. They ran about 3 plays in the second half.
by PurpleHaze11 on Nov 20, 2011 3:05 PM PST up reply actions
You just couldn't leave well enough alone
Oh well…
UW Dawg Pound - SBN Seattle
by John Berkowitz on Nov 20, 2011 3:23 PM PST up reply actions
PH11- you are a respected poster...
… But suggesting that Oregon let up on UW is absurd. Which player “eased up”. at what point did they stop running their offense? I get that you are frustrated, but making shot up isn’t going to help you make your arguments.
Damn, my eyeball tastes good.
@chrislandon
by Gekko Mojo on Nov 20, 2011 5:08 PM PST via mobile up reply actions
Agreed
A big part of successful coaching is firing up and motivating players. I’m fairly certain this wasn’t a Ty specialty. It would be insane for Kelly to tell players not to give their full effort always. If he wants to let up on a blown out opponent, he’ll just dig into the bench, but those guys are just as hungry, if not more so, to prove themselves.
If ya can't get your Dick Enright, get your Dick Harter!
I think Kelly took his foot off the pedal a bit
His play-calling in the 4th quarter to me seemed relatively conservative – he appeared to me more interested in burning clock than dialing up explosive plays to pile as many points on as he could.
That’s simply my observation – I don’t watch the Ducks every week, so maybe I’m off-base.
He did
Who gives a shit if Chip could’ve scored more point or not. Let’s think about it … what purpose would it serve to beat Washington with a higher point margin? When you are in the BCS title hunt, it is to your advantage to burn clock with a sizable lead. The last thing they need is to aggrivate nagging injuries or take on a new one. Get out of the game with a quick W and move on to the next opponent. I think it’s utterly rediculous to even consider the notion that Chip could’ve done this or that. They won the game, time to move on…
All I saw was purple
The plays were the same, they just took more time to run them...
… The fact that they didn’t go to the house in any given play is on the D
Damn, my eyeball tastes good.
@chrislandon
Err...
You did see that Oregon ran their delay offense and didn’t throw passes in the 4th Q at all, right? they threw one the entire 4th Q.
Oregon didn’t score in the final quarter because they didn’t need to and the defense was doing fine. Kelly was doing the delay offense with 11:45 to go. They burned 9 minutes off the clock on two drives.
Do you really think that they were going full steam and trying to score?
You and kirkd above....
were watching the same game as I was. And your observations are right on the money…in deference to what the real baloney peddler thinks.
Explain....
baloney. What part of my comment do you consider baloney?
This game was an absolute train wreck
Worst part was it was a very winnable game. I think every Husky fan should be able to vent frustration. And the Keith Price at the controls was part of the problem. Keith showed no signs of being injured. He sprung off the bench, ran to get his helmet, and ran out onto the field. An injured Keith is worth more then an inexperienced QB taking his first real snaps at this level. If anything Price should’ve been activated to start the 2nd half.
All I saw was purple
I would
play early, play often, new stadium awesome.
it'll have very little impact on recruiting
You guys are severely over-reacting in terms of recruiting. Most kids want a chance to play early, to experience some success and to go on to the NFL. Sark has now fielded bowl teams in 2 of his 3 season (check on the experience some success marker), and clearly he is willing (and has little choice) to play kids early (check on the early playing time marker) and has turned Locker into a #7 overall pick and guys like Butler, Foster & Polk into NFL players (check on sending kids to the League).
Obviously the program will be more appealing to most if it can start consistently winning 9+ games, but we’re no longer a losing team that stays home over the Holidays.
This game had little impact on recruiting, and for the few kids that maybe feel a little less positive about the UW because of the loss, there are others that feel more convinced than ever that they can play early at the UW and are more attracted.
Little or No impact...
Kids want to play and they obviously get the shot to play early at UW.
UW Dawg Pound - SBN Seattle
by John Berkowitz on Nov 20, 2011 2:03 PM PST up reply actions
Speaking of
Shaq Thompson reportedly removed Oregon from his list because Eugene is too small. Cal and UW are in his top 2. If you need more proof, you’ve got an agenda.
We need corners and safeties who can play the position(s)
Who understand the positon(s), who know how to defend the route(s). These positions require extreme athletisism, but what we are seeing this year from those positons is that you have to know how to play those positons to be effecitive. Most ofwhat we are seeing is relying on athletisism and it’s not effective enough. I’m not asking for any lock down corners. Those guys are slim to none out there. But we have to recruit kids who realistically understands how to play the positions in the secondary.
All I saw was purple
If 2-3 star...
…… maybe they are interested, as they now know they are going to get a good shot at much play-time. But for many 4-5 star recriuits: We have blown ourselves out of the water. These guys want to be in a high-profile, often broadcasted, BCS bowl level team. And as everyone beleives now – we ain’t yet even close to that level.
It will take a win against the Cougs and a bowl upset, both convincing/blow-out type wins, to change the above described situation.
by The Dude 4 Real on Nov 20, 2011 1:42 PM PST up reply actions
Wrong
It has little or no impact.
UW Dawg Pound - SBN Seattle
by John Berkowitz on Nov 20, 2011 2:03 PM PST up reply actions
You seem to have a habit
of telling people they are wrong and then not providing explanation for your viewpoints
by PurpleHaze11 on Nov 20, 2011 2:05 PM PST up reply actions
Look above and follow the line of though back to Kirk...
I am not going to write a book on every comment I disagree with.
UW Dawg Pound - SBN Seattle
by John Berkowitz on Nov 20, 2011 2:30 PM PST up reply actions
Then at least refer back to Kirk
It demonstrates where your point is coming from
by PurpleHaze11 on Nov 20, 2011 2:32 PM PST up reply actions
Unfair comment PH11
No one on this blog writes more, explains himself better or gives more good information than John. If you want to be negative go for it, but a personnal attack on JB is unwarranted.
Was Talking About What It Takes....
….. to quickly turn around our attitudes about this football program. That is what a convincing Apple Cup, along with a bowl victory, could do.
by The Dude 4 Real on Nov 20, 2011 2:41 PM PST up reply actions
You can't generalize like that.
“These guys” are all different people. Some want to play early. Some want to be on TV. Some want a coaching staff they click with. Some want prestige programs. Smashing them all together into the category of “these guys” is asinine.
Let's see when LOI day comes around
if we sign Banner/Garnett, Shaq Thompson, and some other big time guys (hopefully on the DL)
I hope for the best
by PurpleHaze11 on Nov 20, 2011 2:28 PM PST up reply actions
Action Items
After this extremely disappointing season, which will probably end at 6 & 6 (which should have been 8 & 4), Holt needs to be jettisoned and a new, hard-charging up-and-comer DC hired immediately. In addition, a clinical sports psychologist/therapist must be brought on-board to repair this team’s badly damaged psyche’. It’s begining to resemble Tyrone B. Horn-eye 2.0.
BTW: I believe the defensive secondary really misses Adam Long. During the second half of last season, he was a real factor in pass coverage and overall defense. Anyone else agree?
I agree with some of it...
I don’t know if Adam Long is the answer but we really need some help in the secondary and some size at linebacker.
UW Dawg Pound - SBN Seattle
by John Berkowitz on Nov 20, 2011 8:56 AM PST up reply actions
Agreed, along with some size at DE.
But even with the talent we have, we should have pounded the Beavers….like most everybody else has.
Except
we were forced to play a QB in his first start who is not very good. Once OSU figured out we were not going to throw down the field, Polk became less effective, we did not move the ball, and we were in trouble. Asking our defense to win a low scoring field position game against anyone is fools play.
The difference in the team with Price in there is remarkable.
Question:
Were we forced to play a QB in his first start who is not very good? The way Price jumped off the bench, grabbed his helmet tells me that Price was healthy enough to play from the opening kickoff. I think John is correct that Sark tends to panic in tough spots. Clearly Keith was healthy enough to play but Sark made the decision to bench him. I just don’t know what he was thinking.
All I saw was purple
Sark probably:
1. wanted to rest a beat-up Keith Price
2. expected his team to handily beat OSU without Price
3. wanted to see what Montana had and give him some game experience
In hindsight, Sark should have waited for the second half for any QB experiments, as Montana was decidedly overmatched, even against a very young and inexperienced OSU team.
No.2 bugs me
It translates to not respecting your opponent. Riley is no flake, he knows how to prepare his team for a NW rivalry game. Your rest your QB during the week and you can also rest him in the game by simplifying the offensive gameplan with safe routes and a heavy dose of Polk. I have no choice but to look at this bold move as clear choice of pushing the panic button. Montana did play well in certain situations, but as the game continued, it became clear to all who watched that we weren’t going to win the game with Nick.
All I saw was purple
I doubt anyone...
at this point, expected the UW defense to “win a low scoring field position game”.
But allowing 38 points and 484 yards to a Beaver team that had scored 27 points combined in its last three games is inexcusable. The Beavs have 20 freshmen in their regular rotation. The Dawgs do a fair job stopping the run against teams like OSU, but why we cannot generate any semblance of a pass rush is a mystery to me….same with why our CB’s seldom attempt to close on a receiver, even after the opposing QB releases the ball….
You were right earlier - the issue on D is the ends
If we just got barely competent DE play, most of our other warts would be completely covered. We are strong up the middle with our DTs, MLB and safeties. Our corners and OLBs are constantly exposed by lack of a pass rush and there are far too many run lanes on the edge. Solving the DE problem turns our D around instantly
Damn, my eyeball tastes good.
@chrislandon
by Gekko Mojo on Nov 20, 2011 5:13 PM PST via mobile up reply actions
it's not just the DE's
Our OLB’s are just not big enough or playing good fundamental football (tackling, zone drops).
But yeah, it’s amazing the difference in quality between our DT’s and our DE’s. We miss Jamora big-time. Not that he’s currently a great player, but there’s a big drop-off from him to Shirley/Hudson/Crichton.
And it would be nice if one of our DT’s could really step up and take advantage of the double-teaming Ta’amu gets. When Ta’amu gets one on one blocking, he dominates. Shelton was the most effective next to Ta’amu yesterday, but that won’t help us next year when Shelton has to replace Ta’amu at NT.
No D!
I’m geeting frustrated with all these claims that NM vs KP would have “made the difference”. Our O’line absolutey sucked once again, and our D gave up on the worst O that OSU has had in over a decade. No QB, not even a Luck, could have overcome how hideous our defense is. Fire Holt!
by The Dude 4 Real on Nov 20, 2011 1:46 PM PST up reply actions
I thought
Holt was a hard charging up and comer.
Holt = hard charging up and comer?
Based upon his record as HC at Idaho? Before that? Or, SC, where he held Pete Carrol’s clipboard as honorary DC? Seriously, where and when did he ever have that label?
The opposing pass has let us down all season long
From what I have noticed is that the secondary does not cover well. On most every passing down we don’t have everything covered, where at least one guy is beat and wide open. It’s not just one guy, I see Trufant getting beat just as much as anybody else out there. Making matters worse is the fact that we have had problems putting any pressure on the QB. By the time we finally get off our blocks, the QB has time to get the pass off to the wide open receiver. Our secondary is awful and we aren’t getting off much of a pass rush.
This game was as winnable as any game on our schedule and we just caved in on ourselves. I’m not blaming ASJ or Kasen for losing this game. It was a team collapse from the secondary, to the defensive pass rush, to the O line, to the coaching staff.
Note to the coaching staff: Forget about wins and losses, forget about bowl hype. Get this team focused on winning the Apple Cup as a team.
All I saw was purple
Holt
How much has he implemented scheme wize? Does he have our kids thinking too much? We know Sark has implemented a ton of stuff on offense and it does seem our offensive kids have flourished with the multiple formations and plays. I’m just wondering if Holt hasn’t implemented too many defensive schemes where our kids are over thining stuff, which would result to a slower reaction time. If so, it might be a good idea to simplfy the defense and just let the kids play.
All I saw was purple
At least we had our major fuckup of a game against OSU and not WSU
Hopefully this is a wakeup call.
The way we are playing
I don’t feel too confident in our ability to beat WSU at a neutral site. This team could’ve won anywhere between 8, 9, 10 gams this year and the way we are playing, I think it looks like a 6-6 year.
All I saw was purple
And not only amen...
but PAC-12 officials should find any excuse to keep UW out of a bowl game, as the league does not deserve to be embarrassed to that level. Send UCLA or Cal, but not UW.
I have been a passionate Husky fan since the 1961 Rose Bowl, seldom missing a game on the radio, even during my childhood and teeage years. And during all those years, seldom have I been as disappointed in a game….or a season….as I am this morning. During the darkest days of the Willingham era, the team played to my expectations, even at 0-12.
This team had so much promise, given last season’s finish, a fresh infusion of young talent and a the energy/confidence generated by a 5-1 start.
For the first time in 50 yrs I find myself not looking forward to the Apple Cup.
by Saltherring on Nov 20, 2011 10:36 AM PST up reply actions
Oh Please...
Relax…take the time to understand what happened yesterday and realize that the coaches and players will get it corrected.
By the way…I look forward to every game.
UW Dawg Pound - SBN Seattle
by John Berkowitz on Nov 20, 2011 10:39 AM PST up reply actions 1 recs
There have been time this year...
Where I simply couldn’t watch the remainder of the game. The past two weekends I’ve done this. After the Price pic on the goal line, where OSU turned that play into a game winning drive, I turned off the game. At USC, I couldn’t make myself watch the entire 2nd half of the game.
This team has no sense of urgency, we’re not playing as a team. This team has talent, enough talent to be an 8 or 9 win team. To take that next step this team has got to come together and play together. Having a pregame team jump means absolutely nothing if that team energy doesn’t exist on the field. It’s time to quit playing going thru the motions. Something has to eventually click with this team and I think all of us were desperately waiting for that to finally happen.
All I saw was purple
I look forward to every game too
Always, a Dawg for life. Even at 0-12 I watched every game. I do agree that I have had to turn off two games, the Stanford game and the USC game. I watched this last game all the way through because I though there is no way we lose to Oregon St. But we did, I’m pissed but will still look forward to the Cup of Apples! I think we will lose for the first time this season I’ll be picking us to lose, which makes me sad. But I’ll be purpled out on Saturday ready to cook some cougar! Let’s Go Dawgs!
by datboyeddiep on Nov 20, 2011 11:55 AM PST up reply actions
I might pick WSU to win the Apple Cup
This team is in a funk and defensively we stink to high heaven (have all season). By this point in the season the freshmen shouldn’t be playing like freshmen, but they are along with a bunch of sophomores and juniors.
Do we really have a lot riding on the Apple Cup? Does a 7 win team get a much better bowl game then a 6 win team? Cougs always come to play the Dawgs, they are focused, tuned in, and they always seem to want it a little more then UDub.
All I saw was purple
by crazidawg on Nov 20, 2011 1:25 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
+1
This Dude is really worried about the Apple cup!
by The Dude 4 Real on Nov 20, 2011 1:47 PM PST up reply actions
As a fan who showed up...
to every game of the 0-12 season and stayed until the end of every game, this team is NOTHING like that team. While the season has taken a turn for the worse, it is NOTHING like 2008.
"The same thing that will make you laugh will make you cry." Ray Lewis
by Carne Guisada on Nov 20, 2011 2:01 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
Um....
Have you watched UCLA and Cal? They are horrible.
by Edgar for Pres on Nov 20, 2011 2:45 PM PST up reply actions
Some weeks, yeah...
Some weeks, no. Just like the rest of the middle of the Pac.
The only truly horrible team in this conference is Colorado. Temporarily.
Hit the Proverbial Wall once we won 6 games
Now I realize we played the best league opponents during that stretch and USC’s win over Oregon is a constant reminder that you have to go thru USC to win the league. This OSU loss was the most unacceptable loss in the Sark era. Did we play uninspired, emotionless, and mentally fatigued?
I’m questioning why Price didn’t start. The way he came off the bench, clearly shows that he was able to play. I think Nick Montana is going to be a good QB, but this should be Keith Price’s time. Leaders play with bumps and bruises. I still think we could’ve activated Price as the starter and used a game plan that would keep him out of harms way with effective yet safe passing routes and use the hell out of our stud RB.
All I saw was purple
Two things are real "positives" here! Well, maybe three?
1) Grading for this game is Perfect…. 2) This game provided seemingly “endless” lessons to learn from…. 3) I’m “Positive” that this was the ugliest,frustrating loss of this new “era” of Sarks career!
by gliderdawg on Nov 20, 2011 10:10 AM PST reply actions 1 recs
Those are positives?
My wife is making me go Thanksgiving shopping….when I get back I am going to write a positive article that will snap us all back to reality.
UW Dawg Pound - SBN Seattle
by John Berkowitz on Nov 20, 2011 10:33 AM PST up reply actions
Damn, I hate those shopping trips...
but I’d rather go shopping with the wife today than try to find anything positive to write about the current Husky football team.
by Saltherring on Nov 20, 2011 10:41 AM PST up reply actions
Please
I need positivity after the Husky basketball game went to shit!
by datboyeddiep on Nov 20, 2011 12:04 PM PST up reply actions
Mention the extra 15 practices twenty or so times
And, throw a unicorn in the article, too. That willl cheer me up.
by Steen on Nov 20, 2011 12:31 PM PST via mobile up reply actions
Thanks Steen...great point
Extra practice is a good thing….a very good thing.
UW Dawg Pound - SBN Seattle
by John Berkowitz on Nov 20, 2011 2:32 PM PST up reply actions
Hmmm...
Not so sure about the extra 15 days of practice now. Does not seem to have done us any good to have had that last year. We still can’t block, put up a D rush, pass cover, tackle any too well, or catch the ball.
It is all these lacking basics that cause me to seriously question the coaching.
by The Dude 4 Real on Nov 20, 2011 3:03 PM PST up reply actions
Please....
Most out there felt that we would struggle to win six this season. Those 15 days of practice were huge for guys like Keith Price.
UW Dawg Pound - SBN Seattle
by John Berkowitz on Nov 20, 2011 3:19 PM PST up reply actions
So that's the strategy eh?
Knock us down to satisfy the thirst for pain after a crappy loss, and then try to build us back up again. :-)
Being an airline pilot and UW fan, reading blogs this week would cause depression or suicide, so I think I will skip reading the blogs this week and hope there is something more positive to read about after next weekend.
Don’t chew each other to pieces this week. See you after the Apple Cup.
"The same thing that will make you laugh will make you cry." Ray Lewis
by Carne Guisada on Nov 20, 2011 1:54 PM PST up reply actions
Evil Strategy!
UW Dawg Pound - SBN Seattle
by John Berkowitz on Nov 20, 2011 2:32 PM PST up reply actions
Frustration
There are a lot of frustrated people here. Can’t help but churn up some negative energy. And this ain’t to be compared to 08! In 2008 we knew we here sliding downhill, and had a coach that just HAD TO GO. Now it hurst in a different way, as we were believing we were on a major up-tick, until yesterday.
Losing so bad to such an easy to beat OSU team….. that is a brand new and nasty pain.
by The Dude 4 Real on Nov 20, 2011 2:49 PM PST up reply actions
Still Caoching At USC
You know, when I think about it, Sark & Holt seem to still think they are coaching all the major-studs at USC (many recruited unethicaly, if not totaly against NCAA rules). So what this means is that our coaches are just not realistic, and are being far to stubborn/stupid about it.
by The Dude 4 Real on Nov 20, 2011 10:38 AM PST reply actions
It means that they are learning
This isn’t the time to rip everything down and start over…this is the time to stay behind the team despite the disappointment and hope for a better performance next week.
UW Dawg Pound - SBN Seattle
by John Berkowitz on Nov 20, 2011 10:40 AM PST up reply actions
Agreed, it is not the time to
“rip everything down”, but certain steps need to be taken, and most knowledgeable Husky fans know what tops the list.
by Saltherring on Nov 20, 2011 10:43 AM PST up reply actions
I agree with John
I’m just pissed off!
by datboyeddiep on Nov 20, 2011 12:04 PM PST up reply actions
Agreed
Yes, JB, I get that. It is just frustrating, and I think worth mentioning – that these coaches have been making this same mistake for almost a full 3 years now.
Keep expecting a different result, while not changing behavior, and you are absolutely insane!
by The Dude 4 Real on Nov 20, 2011 1:50 PM PST up reply actions
Nick Holt couldn't disguise...
his bald head with a Don King hairpiece.
That said, the most successful coaches win and are able to recruit recuit top talent by taking risks and doing the unexpected. Coach Sark all but revealed his OSU game plan by announcing Montana as QB two (?) days prior to game time. Being as everyone “knew” the Dawgs were preparing to ram Chis Polk through the Beavs defense all day, Don James would have opened with Keith Price and threw the ball over the top to his receiver corps, the strongest and deepest (by position) group of this team. Instead, Sark did what OSU expected and lost.
by Saltherring on Nov 20, 2011 12:27 PM PST up reply actions
It matters how the players were recruted, why?
I want those recruits, too, no one gives a damn how you win. This isn’t amateur atheltics.
by Steen on Nov 20, 2011 12:29 PM PST via mobile up reply actions
"Wrong Again Steen"
NCAA sports are precisely “amateur”! Perhaps you meant to say that we are not a D-2/3 type program.
by The Dude 4 Real on Nov 20, 2011 2:19 PM PST up reply actions
Whoosh! Is it warm in the naive world you live in?
That imaginary utopia must be nice.
by Steen on Nov 20, 2011 4:07 PM PST via mobile up reply actions
Seriously?
You want to recruit unethically?
I'm sure we're doing a few things behind the scenes
that are pushing the limits. IMO, behind the scenes, every school pushes the limits. It’s just how far they’re willing to go.
by PurpleHaze11 on Nov 20, 2011 2:22 PM PST up reply actions
There is no truly ethical and unethical as people like to frame it.
The rules are so complicated and the amount of grey area involved make a strictly ethical approach to recruiting suicide to any HC. If you ain’t cheatin you ain’t tryin is a lot closer to the line most coaches need to shoot for to be successful, imo. You must push the envelope.
by Steen on Nov 20, 2011 4:10 PM PST via mobile up reply actions
oh lordy
many recruited unethicaly, if not totaly against NCAA rules
And your basis for this contention is what exactly?
Stories over the years?
Coaches are always pushing the boundaries, going by the letter and not spirit of the law. That’s the definition of unethical.
by Steen on Nov 20, 2011 5:03 PM PST via mobile up reply actions
care to illuminate me?
I haven’t heard any such stories about the USC staff. Some minor stuff, like the smoke coming out of the tunnel as the recruit runs out on to the field (minor violations that both Sark & Kiffin committed after leaving USC).
Orgeron did some shady stuff at Tennessee under Kiffin, but I don’t recall hearing about anything egregious they did at USC.
One thing that dawned on me today
For the past three years, all of our defensive and offensive playmakers have been from the previous Willingham regime. That well runs pretty much dry after this season.
I don’t know if we’re going to be much better next season with our next top 5 players (Price, ASJ, Kasen, Tru, and Fellner…)
Maybe we won’t even go to bowl next year, I’m cruious to see what holt can do in his last season.
thisjustinlee.wordpress.com
by JLee2025 on Nov 20, 2011 1:06 PM PST via iPhone app reply actions 1 recs
Maybe we won’t even go to bowl next year, I’m cruious to see what holt can do in his last season.
Hopefully he doesn’t get to see that season
by PurpleHaze11 on Nov 20, 2011 1:07 PM PST up reply actions
It crossed my mind too...!
It made me shiver a bit when I thought about it.
UW Dawg Pound - SBN Seattle
by John Berkowitz on Nov 20, 2011 2:34 PM PST up reply actions
This makes me shiver as well
Scott Crichton, Oregon State: The true freshman defensive end — and Washington native — had two sacks and forced a key fourth-quarter fumble in the Beavers’ 38-21 win over Washington.
David Paulson making big plays for Oregon doesn’t feel too good either.
by PurpleHaze11 on Nov 20, 2011 2:43 PM PST up reply actions
Chrichton - He was a miss
He was also a gamble…who knew?
UW Dawg Pound - SBN Seattle
by John Berkowitz on Nov 20, 2011 2:46 PM PST up reply actions
Paulson is a system guy
… And wouldn’t fit all that well for us (from his POV anyhow – I’m sure Sark would love to have him)
Performance as a true frosh doesn’t always ensure future results. See James Johnson
Damn, my eyeball tastes good.
@chrislandon
by Gekko Mojo on Nov 20, 2011 5:20 PM PST via mobile up reply actions
Paulson is a system guy?
How do you figure that? Making routine one-handed catches while being well-covered is ‘system’? Running seam routes to break zones is a ‘system’?
Also, Oregon is about as good a place for TEs to develop as you can find. All of the major TEs in the last 10 years are playing in the NFL (Peelle, Wrightster, Rosario, Dickson). If it’s a system, it’s a system that produces really quality talent. There’s no reason to think that Paulson won’t be more of the same there.
I'd rather have him
than our Crichton.
He had an offer from Oregon. That should be good enough to get an offer from UW.
He’s not that much of a stretch. Jason Thompson is a stretch, but we’ll see.
by PurpleHaze11 on Nov 20, 2011 3:09 PM PST up reply actions
Could not disagree more John...
Let me first say that everyone is to blame in this loss, players and coaches. You said it was not the players? How the eff is a coach suppose to to make an open field tackle? Everyone says that you can call out players, well too bad. Johny Timu cannot tackle! He is terrible. The only player on our defense who can tackle is Parker. Cort Dennison is like the University of Washington’s make a wish foundation feel good story of the year. All you hear is he plays with good effort, blah blah blah. Who cares about effort I care about RESULTS!! He along with the other linebackers are not getting it done at all. Watch the game again and pay attention to all the linebackers, not just the outside ones. Dennison is just as bad. As much credit as he gets for putting the huskies into position he has to take the blame because he must be the worst player ever in making adjustments at the line. We are out of position on every play. Yes this is Holts fault as well!
Not saying sark get a good job yesterday because clearly he did not. But to say that if we run the ball more we would win is not true. If you watch the game the reason why we were running the ball so well early was because the left side of the ball was getting a strong push. We did not have success running the ball to the right side. When our LG went out and Wood came in we lost that push. Sark had to adjust because our line could not open holes any longer. Watch the game and you see the shift in game plan soon after the injury. Instead of those 7-8 yard runs we were getting 1-3 yard runs. Sark could not stick to that because we needed points as our defense could not stop OSU. I think he was forced to go away from the run due to injury. Look at the first possession. We did exactly what you wanted.
Sorry this is all over the place but I am just pissed off right now and hung over.
D-87
Play selection was terrible at times….it stalled drives….it wasn’t just how many runs that were called that was the problem…it was when they were called. A good example would is throwing on first down after Polk had picked up a first down…we weren’t patient enough.
I agree the loss is on everyone….but I feel it is much more on the coaches this week than anyone else because they are supposed to have these kids prepared and it is really a stretch to say that they were prepared this week.
One thing I noticed during the game that was interesting is how easily Oregon State picked up the stunts that Holt was calling. Not only were they picking them up and making the locks they were also running at times to the opposite side of the stunt which opened a huge hole in the defense.
I disagree with you on Dennison…he isn’t Butkus…he is small for the position…but imagine the defense without him. Not a pretty picture. He is a lot better than you are giving hm credit for. He is constantly having to over for others on the defense…you can only stretch yourself so thin until you start hurting in the performance of your own job.
UW Dawg Pound - SBN Seattle
by John Berkowitz on Nov 20, 2011 2:45 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
How much better was Mason Foster tahn Dennison? I'm thinking a big gap but honestly I don't want to imagine our defense without Dennison.
by Edgar for Pres on Nov 20, 2011 2:54 PM PST up reply actions
Quite a bit better....
they both had one thing in common…both led the conference in tackles.
UW Dawg Pound - SBN Seattle
by John Berkowitz on Nov 20, 2011 3:20 PM PST up reply actions
He's leading the conference in tackles, he's not horrible.
That being said, if he’s your best player on defense, you’re pretty fücked.
by Steen on Nov 20, 2011 4:14 PM PST via mobile up reply actions
He is our best player on defense.
We are pretty screwed…
Disagree...
I think Parker is our best defense player. Makes plays, sure tackler. I still think Tamu is playing well too, just has not had the supporting cast to help.
Order
Ta’amu
Parker
Dennison
Shamburger
Truant
…
Ballboy
Outside of some of the young guys showing a little bit (Kearse, Shelton), nobody else has shown they are worthy of P12 consideration.
Damn, my eyeball tastes good.
@chrislandon
by Gekko Mojo on Nov 20, 2011 5:24 PM PST via mobile up reply actions
Is anyone (basically Ta'amu) going to get drafted by the NFL at any point?
Have we had any elite defensive recruits lately? I don’t remember much.
by Edgar for Pres on Nov 20, 2011 9:37 PM PST up reply actions
a few others have a chance
I think Trufant will garner some attention, especially if he tests well. Not top-3 rounds by any means, but he’ll get some attention.
Beyond that, you have to squint, because anyone else that might get consideration is very early into their college career – guys like Parker, Shelton, Sample, Jamora.
It would also suggest that the LBs around him are flat out terrible
So if the outside guys are terrible and the inside guy is a stud, what do you do? Well you run right at the stud. Get a lead blocker on that S.O.B. and hammer him. Doing so takes your best defensive stopper out of the play, leaving the two terrible players to clean it up. It’s a thing of beauty.
All I saw was purple
Realistically how good is the talent on our defense?
Sure, Holt hasn’t impressed me at all this year but last year he had the defense clicking by the end of the year. Losing a couple of our guys on defense last year might have actually hurt us a lot more than expected (Mason Foster!).
Do we really have the talent on the defensive side of the ball to match up with Pac12 teams? It seems like I’ve been disappointed at everybody on defense this year (besides Dennison). The only player on our defense who seems to be pulling his weight is an under-talented hard worker. I’m not trying to defend Holt with this but do we really have the talent, size, strength and experience to stack up against a competitive/competent offense?
I’m with you guys that Holt has pissed me off but if I’m in his shoes I don’t know what I do to make this defense better. When your D-line can’t rush the passer, shed blocks or generate enough push its gonna cause problems. When your linebackers can’t tackle, get sacks on blitzs and look lost in coverage its gonna cause problems. When your secondary is retards its also gonna cause problems.
Some of the guys have played well for a game or two but nobody has really been consistently making plays you’d expect a defense to make to keep you in games.
Good Post! Just One Problem
“I’m not trying to defend Holt with this but do we really have the talent, size, strength and experience to stack up against a competitive/competent offense?” – How does apply to yesterday, when we made one of the worst offenses of all of D1 look so very good?
Fire Holt! (when his contract is finished)
by The Dude 4 Real on Nov 20, 2011 2:59 PM PST reply actions
Maybe our defense is one of the worst in D1. Maybe its a combination of mediocre coaching plus mediocre talent. I doubt Holt is one of the worst defensive coordinators in football.
by Edgar for Pres on Nov 20, 2011 3:13 PM PST up reply actions
Actually
I think mediocre or worse talent makes for mediocre coaches. I dont know of any great coaches who win with mediocre talent. But I know of a lot of mediocre coaches who win with great talent.
Does Boise State have great talent?
I do not think Boise State has great talent but appears to do ok. Did James have great talent during all those years he was winning?
by lorenzothedog on Nov 20, 2011 4:51 PM PST up reply actions
The Boise of today is legit.
I’m no fan, they have much beter talent, especially on defense than the ’Cinderella’teams that made them famous.
by Steen on Nov 20, 2011 5:00 PM PST via mobile up reply actions
He had some very talented players and teams but I do not think he had great talent in all those years USC and UCLA had better but he was able to coach up his players and put them in positions where they could succeed.
by lorenzothedog on Nov 20, 2011 6:33 PM PST up reply actions
he had really good talent
There’s been a tendency to downplay the talent that DJ accrued to make him seem even better than he was, but make no mistake – he consistently brought in top-20 recruiting classes and quite a few that were top-10 or higher. Did he consistently out-recruit UCLA & USC? No, but he did quite well. I certainly think he did a better job of coaching up his players than John Robinson at USC and Terry Donahue at UCLA, but it’s not like he was starting off with mediocre players.
Actually
he had really good talent some years, not so great others. The years he had great talent, he had really good teams. The years the talent was not so great, his teams were not so great either. At some point in the late 80s he actually contemplated retirement. That was about when he visited Miami and realized he had no player who could start there. Upon returning he told his coaches to upgrade their recruiting. The result was 90, 91, 92 etc. Please note, it did not happen overnight.
All those years? Maybe not
Most of the years? Yes. On the 91 championship team I believe that every player but two on the two-deep defense got drafted.
Either he was a great recruiter or a great teacher, but the talent level on D was insane.
Some change might be needed
Mr. Berkowitz I agree with you on some points but it still comes down to defense the numbers are not great and the team will lose about 4 to 6 on defense next year then what will the excuse be we are still young some thing has to change.
I would like to get your thoughts on Duane Akina I would hope Sark would give him a call I think he would help stabilize the defense.
Akina
I love Akina and he is available…he seems to float between Texas and Arizona…he started under Tomey. Is he even a cultural fit for the current staff? Who knows?
UW Dawg Pound - SBN Seattle
Jake Locker just threw his first NFL TD for Tennessee
Nice pass to his right on the move. Hasselbeck injured so he should play the game out.
Mora
I don’t want rile up the Mora for head coach group of husky fans because I have complete faith in Sark but I think that Mora would be a good fit as our D Cord. He fits the pro style coaching that Sark likes to run a program, bleeds purple and gold, Sark seems to enjoy Mora. He would bring a lot with him as well as a whole new pool of position coaches as Mora has a lot of contacts as he has coached at a lot of places.
I think the UW D Cord position is a very good job with Sark as a HC. He allows the D Cord to basically act as the head coach of the defense which should allow us to get a big name if we want. We also will pay whatever it takes so that will not be the problem.
I don’t know if Mora is the solution but he would be a good person to look at if Holt is sent packing. Also think Sark would look to Ken Norton JR and Rocko Seto again to gage their interest.
We need a coach who players want to come and play for. It obvious to me that recruits want to come and play for sark and his offense but not sure if they want to play for Holt and our defense.
I love the idea of Mora being our DC.
UW Dawg Pound - SBN Seattle
by John Berkowitz on Nov 20, 2011 4:17 PM PST via mobile up reply actions
I’m pretty sure he would take it too. He really seems to be looking for any reason to stay in the Seattle area. Also if successful would be a security blanket if Sark bolted for the NFL in future.
At $600,000 Plus
would be a nice pay check for Mora also. Would Sark have the self confidence to hire a Mora?
by lorenzothedog on Nov 20, 2011 4:44 PM PST up reply actions
the bigger question...
…is does Sark think Mora would be an upgrade? It would certainly be going well outside of his comfort zone, going away from his buddy Holt to someone he knows, but has never worked with.
I don’t think Sark would (or should) worry so much about Mora taking his job eventually (unless Sark left of his own volition) – it would really be about Sark feeling comfortable with Mora, with his philosophies and making sure they’d be on the same page.
Probably not a problem
He wants to outsource the D anyhow, so why not Mora?
Look, I think it’s idiotic to be calling for Holt’s head right now. A lot can change in two games. Still, it would also be idiotic for Sark to not be building a wish list. I think there are enough boosters who could get him comfy with the idea of a high profile guy like Mora if need be.
Damn, my eyeball tastes good.
@chrislandon
by Gekko Mojo on Nov 20, 2011 5:30 PM PST via mobile up reply actions
yep
I may come across as a Holt defender, but I have no strong feelings either way. I’m fine with the likelihood that Holt returns for season 4, knowing there are other reasons for thinking things may improve, but I’m certainly not trying to champion Holt. I think I’d be more interested in seeing a few position coaches undergo major scrutiny and possible replacement.
As far as Mora, I really don’t know how I feel about him as a DC. He was generally well-regarded in that capacity in the NFL, so I’d suspect he’d be pretty good for us in that role, but finding coaches that really stand out above the crowd is hard.
+1
I am not defending coach Holt, I know as well as he knows that this defense hasn’t played up to it’s potential and that ultimately falls on the position coach and coordinator. However, I would rather us look at each unit first and see if we are getting everything we possibly can with what the position coach is teaching. Because at some positions it is obvious that we are under performing.
I’m not sold on Jim Mora. How would he fit with the staff and would he and Sark have a great working relationship. If a vacancy opens, Sark will find his guy, not ours.
All I saw was purple
Fine, but he gets a muzzle, i don't trust him to not say something that would be a distraction.
by Steen on Nov 20, 2011 4:57 PM PST via mobile up reply actions
I'm still trying to figure out why Holt is in the media
How many other coordinators are interviewed by the media. I really think Sark needs to the media focus point for his team. I would also suggest that Sark answer all questions pertaining to the defense. It’s his team, not Holts.
All I saw was purple
Really?
I hear from the head coach most of the time. What universe are you from? I don’t hear anything from Alloti, Kiffin Sr., never hear anything when Mack Brown’s hotshot DC was around, and I don’t even know who the Seahawls DC is.
Sark needs to take ownership of the defense. I think he needs to do a better job of protecting his staff from the local media. The defense does suck, I’m not arguing that.
All I saw was purple
If you think that the media doesn't interview coordinators
Then you’re just wrong.
Just a google for “Monte Kiffin USC Interview” gave the first result of:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XBvg7ImYxPo
“Aliotti interview” first link was:
http://oregon.rivals.com/content.asp?CID=1172817
Wonder if Kirby Smart and Gus Malzahn get interviewed this week?
Then you don't listen
Aliotti gets interviewed all the time. So does Frost and a few others. It might not be picked up by the national media, but they have their time with the press.
Just ignore him . . .
he lives in an alternate universe.
"Winning isn't everything, it's the only thing."
"Legends are made on the shores of Lake Washington"
Jamora is missed more than realized
Jamora was pretty darn good. Shirley is too small for DE. He needs to be moved to LB. Timu just can’t tackle, nothing but arm grabs with his head looking down. Couldn’t Fuiamuano bump the receiver (Wheaton) when he started his crossing pattern over the middle? It seemed they were both within 5 yards of the line of scrimmage. Now we know how USC felt 2 years ago losing to us.
on Jamora
I think there’s a pretty big gap between Jamora and the guys playing now in his place. Which is not to say that Jamora is currently a good DE – I think he’s average, with the potential to become pretty good by the time he’s a Junior or Senior – but he’s well ahead of the rest of the guys out there.
Shirley and Hudson have potential, but both need to get stronger, and both need to learn better technique and start executing that technique in games. Neither one is providing much pass rush, and both are getting rolled-up badly on run plays.
Crichton just seems like filler. I hope I’m wrong and he can make a big leap forward in the next year or two, but he hasn’t shown me much so far.
And ET is what he is – a ’tweener, too small for DT and too slow for DE, at least as an effective pass-rusher.
I honestly don't know how I feel right now
After taking some time to reflect on what happened yesterday.. I’m still pissed as I was when the game ended but for some reason not as passionate about it. I think part of me actually thought this result was coming before the game started so I wasn’t as shocked as I should’ve been. What does that say about me as a Husky fan, expecting in a way, for this team to lose on Saturday. The one thought that had me thinking we weren’t going to win was psyche, this team coming off an emotional Oregon game and getting trounced by the Trojans, what possible mental state could they be in that would allow them to think they could win this weekend. I’m hopefull that the Apple Cup has some kind of emotional lift for our team to get up for, I bought my 8 tickets after the Arizona game thinking this could be a great AC with both teams playing for something. Now I see it as the Cougs having all the motivation and us with having a great fear of this losing streak continuing into the bowl season.
Last PAC-12 Rose Bowl winner not named USC....Washington
what motivation does WSU have other than spoiler?
I though WSU would’ve had a lot more motivation had they won yesterday. Instead, they’re playing for rivalry game pride, and probably Wulff’s job. And they’re doing it without Tuel, Halliday and Barton (their 2nd leading WR).
I think it’ll have to be a shoot-out, but I think we’ll get back on track next weekend.
And that's my point...
they’re playing for rivalry game pride, and probably Wulff’s job
Put that up against playing not to lose, which I feel will be the only motivation for us.
Last PAC-12 Rose Bowl winner not named USC....Washington
by DAWGFATHER91 on Nov 20, 2011 9:12 PM PST up reply actions
What motivation did the Beavers have?
To my mind, Apple Cup is a bigger deal than Senior Day. I don’t mean to diminish that, but I think our Beaver friends would agree that the Civil War will be a bigger deal for them than was last Saturday.
+1
I’m still pissed as I was when the game ended but for some reason not as passionate about it. I think part of me actually thought this result was coming before the game started so I wasn’t as shocked as I should’ve been. What does that say about me as a Husky fan, expecting in a way, for this team to lose on Saturday.
Man, I hear you. I’m upset with the loss, but on a purely intelletual level. I am pissed, but what I’m pissed about is that Husky football has sent me into a state in which I expected that we would lose to the Beavers and that I was neither shocked nor angry with the loss itself.
I’m just numb.
Unfortunately . . .
I couldn’t agree with you more.
"Winning isn't everything, it's the only thing."
"Legends are made on the shores of Lake Washington"
I started feeling it
when they pulled Price at SC because he was hurt. Still think that was the difference.
Numb..
That’s pretty much it, and it sickens me to think that i’ve become numb.
Last PAC-12 Rose Bowl winner not named USC....Washington
by DAWGFATHER91 on Nov 20, 2011 9:16 PM PST up reply actions
Heres my take
If Holt gets fired, highly unlikely, the defense next year may improve marginally. There are some good young players who will be a year older, stronger and smarter. There will still not be enough good playmaker types for massive improvement. As has been demonstrated this year, the Dawgs cannot depend on the incoming freshmen on defense. With the possible exception of a very athletic corner, freshmen are not ready.
If Holt stays, highly likely, the defense will improve marginally, for the same reasons. No matter who the coach is, we are still a year, maybe two, from having an upper division defense. In spite of what many of you think, you win with players, playmaking ones. We are still a ways from having enough playmakers where they are most needed.
My prediction is that those of you who are crying for Holts hide will still be crying at this time next year. Only there will be more of you than there are now because we still will not be a top flight unit.
I wish it were not so, but I have done enough coaching to know.
by OlyDawgFan on Nov 20, 2011 8:20 PM PST reply actions 1 recs
I think this is pretty spot-on
The thing that would tip the scales one way or the other (and something none of us can know for sure) is how the players are responding to Holt’s coaching, and whether he still has their faith.
I saw an interesting point brought up on the DM.com boards today, and it’s been talked about here in one form or another at times, and that’s whether Holt’s play-calling inspires confidence in the players. Not so much whether they think it will work, but whether his tendency to play more conservatively than not instills a lack of confidence in the players themselves. Do they not play well in man coverage because they aren’t called on to do so as much as play zone and keep plays in front of them? Do they internalize this lack of faith in their ability to play on an island? Do they not play as aggressively as they could because Holt isn’t as aggressive as he could be?
I think there’s some grains of truth to that. Which still doesn’t explain why, when getting sent on a blitz, our guys run right into blockers and seem to lack the ability to disengage from a block effectively. So there’s still certainly some techniques that simply aren’t getting taught effectively.
I also wonder if there’s some value in making changes simply to wake up the team and make it clear that being bad is not acceptable.
Sark went all-in on Holt, so I doubt he’ll turn him away this off-season (and maybe not ever), so this all might be moot.
Good point
It’s as if Husky jerseys have blocker magnets in them, as far as defensive calls, it wouldn’t hurt at this point to go with a more aggressive play calling scheme, I mean, if we already avg over 400yds how much worse can it get really. If anything it would be a nice change up since the OC’s of all the other teams we play are starting to look like they know what’s coming every time. Even still, they will need to tackle people when they get the chance, so that in itself may make my comments moot.
Last PAC-12 Rose Bowl winner not named USC....Washington
by DAWGFATHER91 on Nov 20, 2011 9:30 PM PST up reply actions
My thoughts..
I personally do not think it is the scheme that Holt runs that is the problem, I think it is everything else that the defense does not do that makes me think we need a change. (This is coming from the guy who defended Holt the entire year. ) He is accurate when he says he mixed it up and tried to find out what worked.
My biggest complaint with Holt is his team does not do the simple things well at all. They are the worst team I have ever watched blitz. It is so obvious where it is coming from. When a defender does blitz he starts too early and has no momentum going forward. After watching the Seahawk game and comparing how they blitz to the how the Huskies do and it is night and day. You do not know where it is coming from and the blitzter is running at full speed at the snap.
The team cannot tackle. Plain and simple. Timu might be the worst tackler I have ever seen.
Recruiting… I do not see the talent in the depth chart to get better next year.
Add those all up and I think a change needs to be made.
Holt is Sarks guy but I will respect Sark more if he realizes his guy is not getting it done and a change needs to be made. But we shall see.
I’m not sure if it’s the talent or the technique that isn’t being learned or the fundamentals of each position, it just seems like these guys are at points during the games clueless as to what to do. I don’t mean to call them idiots are anything just that they find themselves out of position or not breaking down to tackle, playing a soft coverage on a blitz. I would much rather see them get beat playing man rushing 6 every down then rushing 4 playing zone and getting picked apart. At this point what has the zone coverage gotten us, switch to an attacking D that constantly brings 5,6,7 guys and play zone as a changeup not a base package, maybe, just maybe we could see the talent come out of some of these guys. But again, this is all moot if we continue to tackle as poorly as we do and continue to stay blocked when blitzing, I hope for better next year no matter who the DC is.
Last PAC-12 Rose Bowl winner not named USC....Washington
by DAWGFATHER91 on Nov 20, 2011 10:22 PM PST up reply actions
My point is
that it does not matter what scheme we run because our players cannot do any of it well. Let’s say we rushed 6 every play as you say. The problem is that our blitzers would just run into the line and not get to the QB thus leaving our secondary in man to man and we would watch them get burned.
I agree I would like to see our defense more aggresive but we cannot do the basics like blitz or tackle let alone play a zone coverage.
Did anyone else notice how slow our LB are in reacting to the ball? They just watched those crossing patterns happen right in front of them and did not re direct the receiver or make a play on the ball. Timu could have had at least 1 pick same with Princeton.
It almost makes me feel sorry for him.
The thing that would tip the scales one way or the other (and something none of us can know for sure) is how the players are responding to Holt’s coaching, and whether he still has their faith.
I often wonder about this. If he does not, the jihad that the fanbase has been on the entire season for his head can’t be of much help. Every time Holt is critical of their performance or challenges them during practice or in a game, they must hear, “Fire Nick Holt!” in their heads. Why do what he says? He’s gone after this season, yeah?
I don't buy that...
..I don’t think any of the players actually believe Holt will be gone after this year. Also, ultimately, they’re playing for Sark who definitely will be back. What has happened on both sides of the ball is teams have figured out exactly where we’re weak at. On offense everyone blitzes on the right side of our line. On defense they attack the edges especially the side with Shirley. Those crossing routes that OSU ran every 3rd down were aimed right at our OLB’s who are both freshman. Pretty simple. If there were better – more experienced players to put in they would be playing but Sark & Co don’t have that luxury. Bottom line is we have several key positions were the starters are playing way before they should be.
Very well said.
You just summed up one of my major concerns with Holt. If he the players don’t believe in him, if his methods have caused the players to lack faith in themselves, then we truly do need to make a change. Time won’t fix the problem.
From Sark’s post game comments, it seems like he is getting rather frustrated with the defense himself. Is he frustrated enough to make a change, only Sark knows.
"Winning isn't everything, it's the only thing."
"Legends are made on the shores of Lake Washington"
Some of you are drama queens
For those of you who thought this team was totally capable of winning more than eight games this year: You were always going to be wrong. This was an 8-4 win capped team if everything shook out well, and a team that wouldn’t go bowling if it didn’t shake out well. We had to replace key players on defense, which has hurt a lot more than Locker leaving.
My top end expectation was 8-4, with a personal low end at 6-6 when I discuss reasonable expectations. I expected several terrible blowouts. Some here overestimated this team wildly.
by Fanfman on Nov 20, 2011 11:24 PM PST reply actions 1 recs
Actually most of the drama queens over at DM on the free boards...
We keep it pretty sane over here.
UW Dawg Pound - SBN Seattle
by John Berkowitz on Nov 21, 2011 12:50 AM PST up reply actions
Sorry, you weren't pressing or trying too hard.
I’m so sick of this excuse, I’ve heard it for 4 weeks now. The excuse all started with Sark and if it were true, clearly a few more tackles or blocks would have been made. Maybe a few more OSU defenders would have wound up on their butts, maybe we would have caught a few more receptions. In my book the team appears to lack confidence, nobody is attacking, there are no swarms of purple around the ball, there is no push from the offensive line, there are no blocks made downfield by receivers. It’s almost as if someone has convinced them that talent alone makes them good. I’m sick of the missed tackles and dropped balls. The lack of pressure on the oposing QB and too much pressure on ours. We are supposed to be improving not digressing. What scares me the most is Sark clearly had no answer during his post game interview. You better find one. Get your head screwed on before you can expect that from your kids. They will always follow your example and it’s time to lead. Quit with the excuses. I heard enough of those from The Tyrone era.

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