Giving the Ducks their due
by kirkd on Nov 3, 2010 11:11 AM PDT
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PrintLet me start off by saying that I'm a die-hard Husky fan. And like most Husky fans, I despise everything having to do with the Ducks. I despise their Johnny-come-lately attitudes, the way they come across as the younger brother that has always been inferior, and when they finally taste some success are aggressively obnoxious about flaunting it. Now, I acknowledge that many Duck fans still have historical perspective, and many are level-headed fans just like the rest of us. And I acknowledge that as bad as some of the behavior that has been documented in Autzen Stadium, no fan base is devoid of idiots and a$$holes. So with all of that as a preface, let me take the time to give the Ducks football program their due (but first let me throw up in my mouth a little):
This Ducks team is really good. We've seen some good Duck teams in the past, and this one is as good as any I've seen, and they stand a legit chance of running the table.
I know many Husky fans poo-poo the Ducks spread option offense, and feel like it's a fad or gimmick that will get figured out and cease to be very effective. Well, consider this: since Kelly has arrived at Oregon, this year's offense is the best he's had in every category. It's pretty much the best offense in the country. IMO, Thomas runs this offense better than Masoli ever did - he's a better passer. The passing efficiency rating for the Duck offense under Kelly is much higher this year than in the previous 3 years.
And it's not just that the offense is fantastic - it's the pace at which they run their offense. Not only are they really effective, they operate faster than just about anyone else out there - defenses have less time between plays to catch their breath, line up correctly and read the Ducks formation and lineup.
As well, the incredible effectiveness of the Duck offense gives their defense the luxury of being more aggressive - they can take more chances because they know that their offense is going to be able to trade scores with anyone in the country. Being able to be more aggressive also allows the defense to play with more confidence, and to develop an attitude of domination. Because they are on the field longer due to the efficiency of their offense, Kelly also is forced to rotate in more players, which builds the quality of their depth, as well as being a selling point in recruiting - if you come to Oregon and you're in the 2-deeps, you're going to play a lot even if you're not starting.
And the scary part for Husky fans - the Ducks are doing all of this while not recruiting at the same level as a USC, but they're starting to get there. The Ducks are a national brand, and whether we older fogeys like them or not, the kids being recruited love the Ducks crazy uniforms and uniform combinations. And as they become more successful, their efforts to recruit nationally are becoming more effective, and their recruiting rankings are improving. Can you imagine how good this offense could look if they were getting 4 and 5 star guys instead of 3 and 4 star guys?
So Husky fans, enjoy the fact that the Ducks haven't won a Rose Bowl since 1917 and have never won a National Championship - there's a good chance one of those things changes after this year. And prepare for the reality that the Ducks don't seem likely to fade any time soon.
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Yup - that just about says it all.
… they are a great team this year and the USC game really cemented for me their ability to run the table all the way to the BCS title game. I shudder to think about a ‘Bama vs Oregon matchup. Oregon really doesn’t have to face a team built like Bama in the Pac 10. Can they stand up to a big physical fast D like the Tide? Who knows, but it would be fun to watch.
Oh, and I completely concur that Thomas is a vastly superior QB in that system to Masoli. Its night and day, really and the kid is only a sophomore. He’s gonna be a star.
As to Oregon fans, they are a pretty good bunch with good senses of humor and fun banter. However, they generally don’t respect their opponents much which I think is reflective of how their players feel. This is an odd attribute given the fact that the greatest accomplishment this program as ever had is nothing more than a mid-season #1 ranking. I don’t know if this team has the makeup to handle sustained success and I’ll be impressed with Kelly if he can keep them focused on their opponents week in and week out.
Damn, my eyeball tastes good.
Those of us who have been around for The Suffering.
Still legitimately fear every opponent. Just like any fan base that has new-found success, there are some front-running, bandwagon-jumpers (Our version of USC fans) who go forth spewing arrogance and ignorance. Real Duck fans still find this whole being ranked #1 and having a real chance to go undefeated thing very surreal.
Still, we are going to enjoy rolling the Huskies with much fervor! There’s a reason we all continue to celebrate “The Pick” as a program-defining and seminal moment. It showed every Duck fan that we could finally compete with the elite programs in the Pac-10.
"It’s great with these group of guys. There is no panic in them." --Chip Kelly, Clearly NOT talking about members of ATQ.
There it is again ...
… you’re assuming that you’re going to “roll the Huskies”. I don’t know of any program that should assume they’re going to roll anyone. Except maybe when you’re playing an FCS opponent, and still … those haven’t always turned out like everyone expected. I’m sure CK isn’t telling his team that they’re going to “roll the Huskies”, which is exactly why he’s successful.
Oh, calm down, and recognize the inherent irony.
"It’s great with these group of guys. There is no panic in them." --Chip Kelly, Clearly NOT talking about members of ATQ.
OK
I think I missed the “inherent irony”. Did you really post “we are going to enjoy rolling the Huskies with much fervor!” on a Huskies blog, assuming that it wouldn’t get a rise? And if I posted “Chip can’t control his criminals” on ATQ … ? How would that fly?
No, it was an obvious dig...but it was supposed to be offset by the rest of my post.
Isn’t trading barbs in good fun what we’re supposed to do? We are rivals, after all.
My apologies if it wasn’t obvious that it wasn’t good natured.
"It’s great with these group of guys. There is no panic in them." --Chip Kelly, Clearly NOT talking about members of ATQ.
All in good fun.
Ducks have always wanted to be like Dawgs.
Enjoy the bragging rights while you can.
Damn, my eyeball tastes good.
IF YOU THINK THE DUCKS WONT "ROLL THE HUSKIES" YOUR CRAZY!
……..No, I dont think CK is telling his team that they are going to “roll the huskies”…….he is staying the course as he always does……WIN THE DAY!!! Thats exactly why the DUCKS will “roll the huskies”.
I really hope that UW can rebuild the program and make this rivalry mean something again…….I used to look forward to this game more than the Civil War but those days have long past.
Good luck your last three games of the season!
I'm not disagreeing about the probable result ...
… I’m just saying that you could post that elsewhere. “Ducks gonna roll the Huskies” should probably be discussed at ATQ. Since I don’t have anything to shoot back about football, here’s one: it’s “you’re crazy”, not “your”. Now I feel better. Husky spelling and grammar – 1, Ducks spelling and grammar – 0.
OUCH!!
It’s ok though…….Husky spelling and grammar -1, Ducks spelling and grammar – 0.
Game on Saturday: DUCKS 98, Huskies 3 (at least your K should be able to score).
GO DUCKS!
That's just not realistic
Oregon has the ability to score around 98, I suppose, but we’ve seen Chip pull all of his starters once things get out of hand. If the game completely gets away from UW, we’ll see 3rd string and below from Oregon.
Spread offense.
Anybody that thinks the spread offense is a fad or a gimmick is stuck in the past. I tend to think the wildcat formation is more of a gimmick, but spreading out the field is the future of college football. I think Oregon is smart for using a spread-option style offense, I prefer a spread passing offense, but the northwest weather in November favors a running offense.
Given our lack of talent, I think Sark has the right idea’s for our offense. Mixing in spread and pistol formations is the best use of our current personnel, we just don’t have the horses to line up and pound the rock against most of the PAC10 schools. I was amazed at the size of the legs on Stanford players, even after almost two years our players still have sticks for legs compared to Stanford.
"Winning isn't everything, it's the only thing."
"Legends are made on the shores of Lake Washington"
spread offenses can be shut down ...
… but the league you are in has to adapt to it. In the Big 12, we saw what Texas was able to do to Nebraska. Last year, we saw an tOSU team (well versed in facing the spread) throttle Oregon. The SEC teams sure have seen enough of it.
In the Pac 10, however, we haven’t put the elite athletes on the defensive side of the ball like other teams in other conferences have. To beat the spread, going athlete v athlete in mano y mano situations is a necessity (not to say you can’t play zone). You have to guard six guys and a lot of green on every snap – thus, many of your best players need to be on the defensive side of the ball if you really want to stop it.
Damn, my eyeball tastes good.
any offense can be shut down.
I think shutting down a spread offense is more difficult. The SEC has seen a lot of it like you said, but Auburn seems to be doing pretty well with it this year.
In general, offensive numbers are going through the roof, more scoring, more yards, just a lot more offense. I think it’s because of the many teams using different versions of the spread offense. Doesn’t matter if you want to run it or pass it, it’s seems easier to do when the field is spread out.
"Winning isn't everything, it's the only thing."
"Legends are made on the shores of Lake Washington"
defending the spread in the Pac-12
The thing that’s going to be difficult about building a defense for Oregon’s spread option is that as long as Harbaugh is at Stanford (and thankfully he may be gone soon to Michigan or the NFL), that’s two radically different offensive approaches to defend. Going to more of a Nebraska approach with big linemen that can control two gaps and smaller, more mobile linebackers might be a good approach against the spread option, but will probably get overpowered by the current Stanford offense.
It’s one of the reasons I like that Sark is differentiating the Husky offense from Oregon’s.
Pac-12
What will be interesting is how Pac-12 south teams fare against an Oregon spread they don’t have to face every single year.
They will have to face Utah's version yearly
so I doubt playing Oregon less often will have matter much.
"Winning isn't everything, it's the only thing."
"Legends are made on the shores of Lake Washington"
The Run and Shoot
was called grass basketball. What do you call Oregon’s offense?
The 28 1/2 point spread will be covered by half time, as much as I hate to say that, that’s what I expect.
If Oregon can't consistently send its players to the NFL ...
… their recruiting will hit a ceiling. They don’t exactly emphasize the same things that an NFL team is looking for in their O linemen or skill position players. I’m just shooting from the hip here, but Stanford’s guys seemed better suited for the next level, just in terms of having enough beef to take the beating. LaMichael James is 5’ – 9" and 185 lbs. I’m not sure if he’d hold up in the NFL. Then again, someone would have to catch him to lay a hit on him.
It looks like they have been, though - all across the field.
Last draft has TJ Ward, WT3, and LaGarrette Blount all getting significant field time this year. Ed Dickson was drafted as well, although I don’t know how much time on the field he’s seeing.
I’m probably missing some – those just came off the top of my head.
I suppose that's fair ...
I was thinking of Barner, LMJ, even DT … maybe he’s pro QB material? Those guys seem really fast but undersized for the pros. I don’t really know. If they’re putting guys in the NFL, they’re going to have a major selling point for kids that play those positions and are high level national recruits. I immediately think of USC for a program that puts lots of guys at all positions in the NFL. Can that be attributed to running a pro style system? Does Oregon’s spread lend itself to moving guys to the next level?
Elite athletes are always going to make it to the next level.
Whether or not the spread prepares offensive personnel for the NFL is certainly debatable, but I don’t think it’s much of a factor of whether or not they actually get drafted.
"It’s great with these group of guys. There is no panic in them." --Chip Kelly, Clearly NOT talking about members of ATQ.
really the only position that Oregon recruits for that doesn't translate into the NFL easily is QB.
… and maybe TE (although that is changing as more and more TEs out of spreads are being brought into NFL versions of spreads – see Jermichael Finley and Aaron Hernandez). Oregon tends to get smallish lineman to underscore their speed emphasis, so that is an issue. But they put out NFL guys.
Damn, my eyeball tastes good.
Ducks OL
I’m not sure if the Ducks run a zone-blocking scheme, but if so, that probably helps their OL in terms of NFL potential. Denver in the ’90’s proved you can run the ball well with smaller, more athletic OL when you run zone-blocking schemes.
Max Unger
He was starting right away for the Seahawks. Sitting out with an injury right now.
He was also awful
Couldn’t compete physically either of the last two seasons, just not strong enough. So size is clearly a handicap for Chip’s prototype linemen, but if those are the guys he’s looking for, he wont need to go after blue chippers anyway.
same deal with Nick Reed. smallish guys who have motors, but really aren't ideal NFL bodies.
Damn, my eyeball tastes good.
Yeah, I saw that ...
… when I looked at Oregon’s players on NFL rosters. I can’t name every one, but there were lots.
If Dennis Dixon got drafted in the 4th after getting injured....
Then Darron Thomas definitely will. Great size and strength, and will likely be a three year starter.
I don't know.
I tend to disagree, only about the draft part. I think that sending people to the NFL is a big selling point. I’m not saying that the spread leaves people unprepared, just that it requires different personnel than the pro style offense.
I'd say that's somewhat valid for the QB position...
but what other positions are really all that different? OL still need to have the same basic blocking techniques, even if the scheme is different. WRs run all the same routes, but are simply asked to block more. TEs are pretty much the same. RBs run behind a different scheme, maybe, but it’s still pretty much the same. The only thing the spread doesn’t produce is a FB.
"It’s great with these group of guys. There is no panic in them." --Chip Kelly, Clearly NOT talking about members of ATQ.
In Oregon's case ...
… smaller, quicker RBs. Different QB responsibilities / athlete type. TEs seem the same. OLs appear faster and smaller, to my untrained eye. No FB, fine. Not a problem if you don’t need one. WRs seem the same. I guess that’s the extent of it.
I felt that Oregon took speed over size in its offensive positions — especially relative to what’s “normal” in the NFL. The numbers that I found supported this for the running backs (who are very good by the way). As a group they’re quite small — around 180 lbs. give or take. The offensive linemen, who I thought would be rather undersized, matched up evenly in terms of size with Stanford and Arizona — teams that I thought of as having “big” linemen.
Anyway, I’m certainly no expert … I was surprised at the size of Oregon’s offensive line. Maybe they’re so fast that they look small on TV.
Keep in mind
That the NFL appears to be trending toward a 2 RB platoon, a smasher and a dasher. There will definitely be a place for the smaller, quicker RB’s that Oregon is producing.
A place sure, but they're going to have to be able to do more than just get 10 carries a game as the change of pace
Reggie Bush, Darron Sproles, CJ Spiller and Javid Best are all that come to mind of guys in that shifty speed mold that are “feature” guys. I think 3 of those 4 return kicks and have good to great hands to catch in space.
WR not a factor, but QB is huge
Case and point
Michael Crabtree – Top 10 Pick
Graham Harrell – Undrafted, in CFL
The majority of players drafted, at least last year, have been from a school that ran a spread offense.
I would need to check the years before to see how long that’s been true.
It’s spelled "S-H-U-F-E-L-T-A-L-I-T-T-L-E-T-I-G-H-T-A-T-T-H-E-H-E-E-L"
Spread offense is misleading...
Gerald McCoy and Russel Okung were guys that got drafted from a school that ran a spread offense. Also, if you want to get real technical, UW runs variations of a spread offense, they come in in 5 wide sets from time to time and run alot of fly sweeps, logistically that’s a spread offense. Even though most consider it “pro-style”.
spread and the NFL
It’s less of an issue going from spread passing offenses into the NFL as a QB than from a spread option offense into the NFL as a QB.
Sure. Teams like New England, New Orleans, Kansas City, and to some extent, Minnesota, all have major spread packages. In fact, the majority of plays from New England and New Orleans are ran from a 3+ wide, shotgun formation packages, including running plays.
It isn’t even that uncommon to see some option out of it, but that will never be the primary offensive set.
It’s spelled "S-H-U-F-E-L-T-A-L-I-T-T-L-E-T-I-G-H-T-A-T-T-H-E-H-E-E-L"
they run spreads - but I really can't remember the last time I saw an option out of it...
… play action, sure. But the threat of a QB running is about null. They just can’t risk the injuries.
to that point, Oregon’s lack of any big injuries this year is a huge story. the offense they run is inherently high risk because players in space are also players who suffer high impact hits. I wonder when that trend regresses to the mean.
Damn, my eyeball tastes good.
New York Jets, Kansas City, Miami, Pittsburgh, and Philadelphia have all ran at least once option this year. (My own observations) New York Jets specifically have had success with bringing in Brad Smith and running the option. They ran it several times last year, and they are still running it this year.
Kansas City had success with an spread offense system with Tyler Thigpen, and they ran the zone read often with him, simply because their other QBs suffered injuries, and Herm Edwards saw that Thigpen was more effective and more comfortable with it – and that was their most productive their offense was all year.
Is it a primary offensive system? No. It probably never will be at the NFL level, but it is being more accepted, and is finding wrinkles at the next level, and it will probably continue to come out of a utility position, and not a primary QB.
It’s spelled "S-H-U-F-E-L-T-A-L-I-T-T-L-E-T-I-G-H-T-A-T-T-H-E-H-E-E-L"
I see what you are saying - you are talking about the gimmik stuff with backups.
… ok.
Damn, my eyeball tastes good.
It’s not so much a gimmick, by defintion, because when you see a different player jump in as QB, you know something is up.
But I know what you’re implying and… yes, that is what I’m talking about. Nevertheless, it has had success, and it is probably the solution to the fears of NFL coaches have in regards to their quarterback getting Ike Taylor’d.
It’s spelled "S-H-U-F-E-L-T-A-L-I-T-T-L-E-T-I-G-H-T-A-T-T-H-E-H-E-E-L"
UW has a spread package that they use to take advantage of Locker's mobility and Callier's speed
but they are by no means a spread offense.
Oregon's offense is nothing revolutionary
They’re just f***ing good at what they do, the bastards.
Check out this page, and take the time to watch the video…it’s a very interesting look at Oregon’s offense, which is really just a combination of your basic zone-read, the veer, and the triple-option…run to perfection with athletic beasts for linemen and receivers who block like their collective lives depend on it. And directed by a coach who—while I had the very sight of his ugly, arrogant, fat-ass mug—is the best in the business at running it.
http://www.sbnation.com/ncaa-football/2010/11/3/1791451/oregon-ducks-offense-mythbusted
by Purple Reign 91 on Nov 3, 2010 12:30 PM PDT reply actions
C'mon now, Chip's on a diet!
"(Kelly's) got a veteran team that is the favorite to win the Pac-10. His choice of Thomas reflects only one belief: He’s our best QB today."-Ted Miller
by TennesseeQuackAttack8 on Nov 3, 2010 5:00 PM PDT up reply actions
Not going to argue with this....his interviews come off like this a lot
Honestly if you want to hear some really brutal interviews, listen to Kelly’s interview with the local media. There was one on today that was particularly bad.
http://audio.1080thefan.com/m/audio/35065886/chip-kelly-uo-head-coach.htm
Chip and Canzano
I believe it was John Canzano’s radio show this summer where Chip got especially defensive and defiant about all the talk swirling around Masoli and was talking about coming back to hear what people had to say once the investigation was over.
Did Kelly ever go back and give a mea culpa when it turned out Masoli had lied to him and made Chip look bad on the radio, who then in turn acted like a dick to Canzano on the air?
That discussion wasn’t about Masoli. It was about James, and when the results of that situation was over, Chip Kelly suspended James for a game. He was consistent with what he was debating about on Canzano.
Also, Kelly is on Canzano’s show every Thursday afternoon.
It’s spelled "S-H-U-F-E-L-T-A-L-I-T-T-L-E-T-I-G-H-T-A-T-T-H-E-H-E-E-L"
if you say so
I don’t care enough to go back and find the audio I’d heard, but I could have sworn the incident I’m thinking about was about Masoli.
BTW, I completely agreed with how Kelly handled James – that was a minor incident, and reading the police report made it clear that what was being said about James around the internet was a major exaggeration of the actual incident which, while unfortunate, was also rather understandable.
Great article
Great article
I am an ex duck player from the 80’s so I fall in the age group that has an adverse reaction to the Huskies. I think your article is right on. I grew up in the south and learned to give praise where warranted. While I cheer my Ducks, I respect where UW is heading. May take awhile but college is cyclical. Let’s stay classy
Go Ducks, Pac 12
81
I have a number of Duck friends…some of them are former Duck players…so I understand where you are coming from and also understand the euphoria which surrounds the Oregon program at the moment. Oregon deserves to be where they are right now so as Kirk says the Ducks deserve their due.
College football is indeed cyclical…just ask any USC fan. Getting on top is tough…staying there is tougher. To be honest I think Oregon has a stronger foundation at the moment than USC did under Pete Carroll but it can turn so quickly. That is what makes college football the greatest game on the planet.
UW Dawg Pound - SBN Seattle
by John Berkowitz on Nov 4, 2010 11:06 PM PDT up reply actions
Good Post, Duck 1981
I have a few buddies from the UO football program who played in the 70’s (no, I’m not that old, they just are friends from work and from the gym), and while I learned to despise the Ducks in the late-80’s, I’ve also learned to look past my personal feelings to respect the heck out of their program. Like you said, football is cyclical and soon enough, teams who recruit well enough will learn to defend Oregon’s offense, just as teams learned to defend the triple-option wishbone in the early-80’s, the mutli-wide sets in the 90’s, and the spread in the past few years. I f***ing hate Kelly and think he’s an arrogant prick, but respect his coaching ability to no end, and take pride in my ability to separate the two.
As you said, stay classy. I’ve been introduced to the classiness of great football fans traveling the country to watch my Dawgs…Nebraska in ‘91, Michigan in ’02, Notre Dame in ’04 and ’09 come immediately to mind as the most hospitable, and look forward to future trips to Lincoln next season and Baton Rouge in ’12. I can’t imagine the NFL as ever coming close to this level of class. Go Pac 12, go college football!
by Purple Reign 91 on Nov 5, 2010 9:36 AM PDT up reply actions
Kelly
I thought his quote about Jake Locker was beyond classy. It was so classy it disappointed me….lol.
Just for the record…most head coaches are pricks…
UW Dawg Pound - SBN Seattle
by John Berkowitz on Nov 5, 2010 11:45 AM PDT up reply actions
Didn't catch Kelly's quote this week
What did he say?
Funny about coaches being pricks. WIth a few exceptions, I found many of the baseball coaches around D-1 ball to be decent guys who I’d typically send a pitcher over to their table if I saw them the night after games. I know football coaches are a different breed than baseball, but a few guys hit me as good guys to share a pint with…Riley, Doba, and of course, if one is ever in Pensacola, you’d have to share a few with Mike “ROLL TIDE…I’M ROLLING BABY, I’M ROLLING!” Price.
by Purple Reign 91 on Nov 5, 2010 2:07 PM PDT up reply actions
stupid double post for my first...
I think Jake’s probably all that’s right about college athletics," Oregon coach Chip Kelly said. “He probably turned down a pretty lucrative deal to come back and play at Washington. I feel for Jake more than anything. He’s everything you’d want in a football player.”
What Kelly said
I think Jake’s probably all that’s right about college athletics," Oregon coach Chip Kelly said. “He probably turned down a pretty lucrative deal to come back and play at Washington. I feel for Jake more than anything. He’s everything you’d want in a football player.”
I still think Locker made a huge mistake coming back, but he’s all that’s right about college football.
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