Coug Logic - If they get $150 million we should get $150 million
by John Berkowitz on Mar 10, 2009 12:21 PM PDT
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PrintKing 5 was out at the Apple Cup interviewing fans of both teams, UW AD Scott Woodward, and Governor Christine Gregoire.
It never fails to amaze me what little grasp of this issue that the people of this state have about this situation and where the money would come from to accomplish the renovation.
I can't think of a single public/private venture that is shovel ready that can provide 7000 jobs in the Puget Sound area other than Husky Stadium. Add in a Key Arena renovation which would also be a public/private venture and you are creating a lot of jobs in a time when construction related jobs are very hard to come by.
The money generated comes from King County and has been earmarked for exactly this purpose. The purpose is building and maintaining sports stadiums. Key Arena and Husky Stadium just happen to be sports stadiums.
Coug logic as usual is flawed. I would agree if the state was giving Husky Stadium $150 million from the general fund they should have the same opportunity. This is quite different because all the taxes are generated in King County and are meant to be used specifically in King County.
Last time I looked Pullman wasn't in King County even though most of the graduates live there.
But Gregoire says Husky fans may want to temper their enthusiasm for the stadium plan.
"I can't imagine this is the time to ask the people to invest in that, though it means jobs," she said.
Gregoire says the state's $8 billion deficit hurts any entity - like UW - looking for major money.
"We are in one of the worst economic times in the history of the state, so I don't know this legislative session is going be the answer to what Husky Stadium wants," she said.
Christine Gregoire is among my least favorite politicians. She doesn't lead very well and is as partisan as they come. How do you ignore the creation of over 10,000 jobs with half the money coming from private sources in an economy like this?
I guess you do it the same way you ignore the possibility of the Viaduct falling down and killing hundreds of people and the 520 sinking in high winds or an earthquake. These needed regional transportation matters should have been finalized five years ago but they continue to drag on because the Governor lacks the ability to lead and make a final decision.
UW AD Scott Woodward believes that getting the funding is a 50/50 proposition right now despite the self defensive political rhetoric. If the legislature votes to switch the decision making authority on those funds to King County....where those funds are happen to be generated...chances are the King County Council will go along with it.
On the table are $150 million private dollars for Husky Stadium. Another $150 million from Microsoft's Steve Balmer for Key Arena, and $30 million from Clay Bennett which he gave up in a settlement to move the Sonics.
We are talking $330 million from private sources to help fund $600 million dollars worth of public projects. Deals don't get much better than that for the public and they don't stay available forever. The $30 million from Clay Bennett comes off the table if the city doesn't get the renovation of Key Arena going in a certain timeframe. You have to believe that Balmer has his own timeframe also.
It is time for people to start making smart decisions rather than protecting their political butts. It is all about manufacturing jobs as quickly as possible for the least cost possible. The public/private investment in Husky Stadium and Key Arena achieves those goals and will continue to yield benefits to the Puget Sound area for the next fifty years.
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Its pretty obvious to me the Governor
never read Profiles in Courage by JFK, one of the lasting impression books I have read. Not only her, but way too many pols and wanna be pols.
Profiles in Courage
One of my favorites and it showed how the mind of Jack Kennedy was shaped.
I am not doubting Gregoire’s intelligence but her lack of vision and leadership is pretty obvious.
I am not saying Rossi was any sort of a prize either.
by John Berkowitz on Mar 10, 2009 1:21 PM PDT up reply actions
The local media
doesn’t bother to correct the perception of “tax dollars” as if it were coming from the General Fund. I tend to think the local media is deliberately continuing the misconception since most of them are coogs. Only once have I heard a local TV type mention the real funding source as not being the General Fund. Are coogs and reality mutually exclusive?
Jack
I don't know if the media are purposefully distorting things
But it wasn’t until I heard from UW fans specifically about the source of the tax money that I decided it wasn’t any of my business.
I too have only heard few and far between reports which address the particulars of the proposal, which I would think says more about the state of today’s media than about possible partisanship among reporters. The video seemed to be more about stirring up emotions (read: ratings) than legitimately discussing the proposal.
Tony Bennett for Heisman!
by johnnycougar on Mar 10, 2009 4:13 PM PDT up reply actions
Exactly
That’s the key. Let King County decide King County matters.
Washington Husky Football-1991 National Champions
What slays me too...
…is that the state could torpedo that whole thing before it’s even given a chance. They have to approve the decision to go before the KC Council.
Not to slam the cougs but they get over 4 million a year from the GENERAL fund. People can justify that all they want but why shouldn’t Husky Stadium get tourism tax dollar help from King County?
Here’s an idea. Get the beancounters to come up with an estimate of how much tax money Husky Stadium produces each year. Times that number by 20 and approve those funds.
Washington Husky Football-1991 National Champions
I don’t think there’s any media conspiracy on this either – I think it’s just pandering “journalism”, especially the local TV news. They don’t really care about fairness or accuracy – they care about sensationalism, much more so than print media.
There just doesn’t seem to be much drive by these reporters to dig into the issue.
It’s kind of like how the local print media just repeats verbatim the claims by the M’s that they lost money this year, without pointing out that the M’s report claiming such is not available for vetting by independent accountants.
It baffles me...
Create 10,000 or more construction related jobs during the toughest economic period since WWII and have over half of it paid by private contributions.
Seriously…Is there a single better deal than that on the table anywhere in the state right now?
Don’t they get it?
It just baffles me that the media and govement continues to misrepresent this issue to the public to get it tossed out in the court of public opinion.
I can’t think of a better investment in infrastructure than this because of the 50/50 public/private financing model. Add to that the lasting legacy and increased revenue provided by the rebuilt facilities to the residents of the state.
To me it is a no brainer.
The other thing is....
…the UW is going to have to start paying upwards of 10 million a year in deferred maintenance in order to keep Husky Stadium serviceable. That’s 100 million over 10 years and does nothing except DELAY the renovation. Ten years from now the costs are going to skyrocket. So you’re wasting money now AND in the future.
Washington Husky Football-1991 National Champions
I still don't get it...
Why does the state legislature get to have any control over tax dollars generated in King County?
The taxes are collected in King County. The taxes have been earmarked for sports stadium construction and renovation. Husky Stadium is in King County.
Why doesn’t the legislature just get their grimy hands off of the money and authorize the King County Council to take control of the revenue stream? That’s where it belongs.
The state set up the taxing district
The state set up the taxing district to build the stadiums so that is where the control currently is. Extending or altering the terms of the tax technically would still be handled by the legislature unless they delegate that resposibility specifically to King County. One reason to do that would be to eliminate state wide backlash concerning how the money is spent even though it is raise and spent in King County.
It makes sense of course to delegate the responsibility on how the money is spent to the area where the money is raised…King County. Sense, logic, and politics don’t always go together.
Two sides to that coin….
Pro: The legislature and governor can wash their hands of any political liability by transfering the power directly to the King County Council.
Con: Have you ever seen a politician give up control of how money is spent or raised? The Legislature may not be that interested in giving up control.
by John Berkowitz on Mar 10, 2009 2:15 PM PDT up reply actions
Well said John
Great work, you hit the nail on the head. I’m disgusted by how selfish and stupid cougar fans are being about this. If this fails we should push to stop funding WSU’s athletic department out of tax payer money.
"Bow Down to Washington"
"Kick the tires and light the fires!"
You are part of the solution John – getting clear information about this proposal out there to the public and providing context and clarification, things we often aren’t seeing in other reports about the proposal. That’s what we all have to keep doing – keep spreading the truth about this proposal, and providing context that shows what a good deal it really is; to wit: this King County tourist tax providing $270M for $600M worth of local construction, and the Husky Stadium portion of it is shovel-ready.
How is that not a smart investment? Any Cougs care to enlighten me?
Do you expect Cougar fans to really get it?
Since the proposal keeps getting misrepresented in every part of the media it is hard for anyone to get it let alone a Cougar fan.
Nothing against Cougar fans but the majority hate and despise us. So give them a reason to poop in our sand box and they come in mass.
by John Berkowitz on Mar 10, 2009 2:57 PM PDT up reply actions
We've already discussed this at length re: Coug Fans
But I agree that the proposal is misrepresented in the media, and that many Cougar fans would back off if this was clarified by the media.
I understand that some of the state tax money allotted to WSU ends up in the athletic department, and the reasons for that can be and have been discussed in many places. It comes out to, what, less than a dollar per adult per year? (3-4 million per year, 5 million Washington residents > 18 years old) Whether or not it is ethical has also been discussed elsewhere, and I don’t want to bring it up here.
But if you as a UW fan thought you would have to help to contribute $150 million to build a new stadium for WSU you too would freak out. I am sure the majority of Cougs just don’t know the details. If you DO know the details and still oppose it I am happy to hear the arguments, like Grady did over at CougCenter a while ago. I don’t agree with everything he said, but at least he cared enough to research it.
Tony Bennett for Heisman!
by johnnycougar on Mar 10, 2009 4:22 PM PDT up reply actions
Coug fans continued
But if you as a UW fan thought you would have to help to contribute $150 million to build a new stadium for WSU you too would freak out.
Respectfully that is not the point at all. It is coming from existing tourist taxes raised in King County specifically meant to be used for sports venues. That is why the WSU administration isn’t fighting it.
I have no problem with the state subsidizing WSU sports. The sports arena at WSU by the way was built with money from the state general fund and you didn’t see Husky fans making a big stink out of it. Tax payers subsidize the overall sports program $4 million per year and you don’t here a single Husky fan complaing about it.
Your a great guy…but the overall Coug mentality sucks.
by John Berkowitz on Mar 10, 2009 8:28 PM PDT up reply actions
Politics in Washington
I was born and raised in Seattle. I love the State of Washington. That being said I moved to the Midwest in the early 90’s and haven’t been back except for frequent visits.
The poorly thought out and socialistic regulation of the health insurance industry in the state forced about every company in the country from selling health insurance in Washington. Being a health insurance broker it basically forced me to move out of state. Try buying affordable health insurance as and individual in Washington. Try finding good health insurance at any price in Washington. It doesn’t exist and you can put the blame sqaurely on the head of that idiot Deborah Senn and the state goverment who allowed her to screw it up.
Well said....
Thanks John, you said it very well. This political situation has driven me nuts over the past few years. From the Sonic situation to the current Huskie Stadium issue I feel so fustrated as a citizen of this state. It has always been a no-brainer easy decsion to me. The way it’s portrayed and handled is so irresponsible I get upset with our Govenror and Legislature whenever they twist the issues and allow misconceptions that keep it from getting done. They have such a vendetta against sports it seems that they go out of their way to block anything from getting done. They seem to fear backlash from the nonsporting public to such a degree they will not go there so to speak! The next time I hear them say education is more important than sports stadiums for pleasure I will…..(scream)…. The two do not conflict in these matters! Besides they never really do anything in the education arena anyway. It’s just an excuse…( my council member said he will never approve money for sports as long as ONE homeless person exists in this state! ) You’ll very rarely get a majority approval on anything anyway since not all like the same things or have the same agenda. These politicians are famous for doing nothing. It’s all about keeping their office and are parrelized by fear of losing it or so it seems. I will stop now since I could ramble on if allowed….But you understand my points….
my council member said he will never approve money for sports as long as ONE homeless person exists in this state!
Ugh. Stuff like this just drives me up the wall. I’m liberal by nature, but this is a completely indefensible statement and the most blatant kind of excuse-making. No homeless people in the state? How is that going to happen? It’s impossible, because even if you honestly tried to do it, you’d attract every hobo on the West Coast to come to the state (“Hey guys – if we can get to Washington they’ll take care of us! Let’s go!”)
That said, it’s on us when idiots are voted into office, because we’re the idiots voting them in.
I saw that...
…where the money was mixed in for different things and one of them was low income housing. It’s laughable that the Seahawks and Mariners got theirs but everyone else is out of luck.
Washington Husky Football-1991 National Champions
Dawg71 your council member is a MORON!
Both the pro and college sports arenas provide jobs. Good jobs that require little education. Good jobs that can support a household. Ticket sales, concessions, custodial support, parking attendents, merchandising, ushering, security, field maintenance, infrastructure maintenance, and equipment managers. That is just the on-site jobs- did I forget anything?
Not to mention local area businesses thrive in this market as well. And the homeless are homeless because they choose to be homeless. I don’t have the statistics with me but many of the homeless are mentally ill. Military vets, patients off their meds, and addictiive personalties. Their not homeless because they lost their job or they were kicked out of the parents house. Their is a legitimate reason why the homeless are homeless, most often is is due to the reasons I’ve stated above. Now I’ve got a great idea for patients off their meds, but that is an entirely different topic and a UofW Husky sports blog is not the forum for that discussion.
But your council member is a freakin’ MORON!
All I saw was purple
Vote for someone else - 10,000 jobs created just might mean less new homeless
When idiots make statements like that we all have a choice and that is to vote for somebody else.
Some of these morons just don’t get it. The reason these people are homeless is they don’t have jobs. Give somebody a job and they can afford a roof over their head.
The reason people are homeless is that idiots like this guy can’t figure that out.
by John Berkowitz on Mar 10, 2009 8:32 PM PDT up reply actions
You know I did...
….and I let others know his stand and other foolish things he said. I was so disappointed with his attitude. Cocky would only begin to describe it.
This thing is going to get done
They can’t allow a great asset like Husky Stadium to rot away. I’m confident that this project will get done, because A.D. Scott Woodward wouldn’t have taken the job fulltime if he knew getting the job done wasn’t going to happen. Getting the stadium rennovated and seeing to it that Husky football is restored is what Woodward will be judged on the most. What’s pissing me off is how long it is taking.
Not that I have insider knowlege but this is Washington beuracracy in it’s finest hour. Gregiore is a career politian and her appearence at the UofW vs. WSU game was nothing more the a political platform. I liked how she mentioned Gonzaga in with her spew about Washington and Washington State.
Flat out the UofW lost any chance of getting state funding for the rennovation when Gregiore won the election. Not that Rossi would’ve been much better- I do however think he would’ve seen the importance of getting folks back to work, even at the expense of spending money. This project would’ve provided thousands of jobs for the local economy and with Gregiore to ignore it sends a clear and precise message as to how ignorant the govenor really is. If I were a local contractor out of work, I’d think less of Chris Gregiore.
But it will get done one way or another, an asset like this won’t be torn down.
All I saw was purple
Just remember what you said...
…these politicians have to walk the political fence. You’re kidding yourself though if you think Rossi would have been any closer to getting it done. My guess is even less of a chance.
Washington Husky Football-1991 National Champions
Hated seeing her at the game
She’s made it very clear she doesn’t care about basketball fans. Pretty sure she didn’t stay for the end of it either.
Did I tell you guys...
…I met her before a football game last season. I made it a point to mention the needs of Husky Stadium. She replied with the typical political response “We’re working on it”
Washington Husky Football-1991 National Champions
Not exactly warm and fuzzy
She doesn’t seem to be warm, fuzzy, or genuine to say the least. Kind of your usual twisted political animal.
by John Berkowitz on Mar 11, 2009 10:09 AM PDT up reply actions
It was funny...
because I went over to shake Norm Dick’s hand, former Husky lineman I might add, anyway he gives the old bull handshake. You know the one where they guy shakes your hand but then kind of pulls you off balance. Never really understand why guys do that, must be some kind of dominance thing. Anyway so he asks me if I want to meet the governor. So I say, “OK” and I know exactly what I’m going to say (of course!) So here’s this 5 foot nothing little gal surrounded by trees (tall people) and that’s how I got to meet her face to face and get my plug in. I actually met Patty Murray pretty much te same way. Another 5 foot nothing gal (wsu grad). Amazing how many movers and shakers you can meet at Husky Football games.
Washington Husky Football-1991 National Champions
Now!...
…if they’d just start listening to what WE have to say! Of course there’s probably more people who are saying “No tax money for sports!”
Washington Husky Football-1991 National Champions
No tax money for sports
Once again this would tap into a fund that was specifically put together for sports that is funded by tourist taxes. We aren’t talking new taxes or tapping the general fund. We are just talking about extending something that works so it will continue to fund things like Husky Stadium, Key Arena, The Arts, and renovations when needed down the road for Safeco, and Qwest.
It makes so much sense when presented properly.
This money creates jobs now and down the line.
It is a great investment.
by John Berkowitz on Mar 11, 2009 2:05 PM PDT up reply actions
Jobs, Jobs, Jobs
You are spot on about the jobs. These are all jobs that will be done by local carpenters, electricians, tinbenders, plumbers, mason, project manager, project engineers, steel fabricators and hundreds of suppliers. These projects would make a positive impact on the economy for several years and pricing on construction projects is down 20-30%. It makes too much sense.
Please stay on this subject because this work needs to happen, the prices to get the work done are at a huge discount, and the state will collect Sales Tax of around 30 million.
It makes too much sense, but our crummy political leaders want to spend money on green power or fueling stations on I-5 even though the technology is not there yet.
Sure would be nice to see a legislator with the guts and foresight to champion this cause on the solid premise of the jobs angle, and pointing out how an investment of $270M would return $600M worth of work. It would be risky given the ignorance about this proposal and antagonism in this area surrounding sports stadiums and public financing, but it could also pay off in droves given how unique a voice that would be and how much sense it would make by framing the discussion properly.
Point is...
The money is there and this is what it is supposed to be used for.
by John Berkowitz on Mar 10, 2009 8:34 PM PDT up reply actions
What are the alternatives?
We all knew this was a possibility. I’m not giving up, but this thing is either going to have to wait or we’re going to have to accept little to zero state funding help. If this fails, do we wait for a few years or do we start pushing ahead with this thing on our own? Personally I would like to get this thing started with or without state help.
Washington Husky Football-1991 National Champions
Alternative?
I guess you would need a sugar daddy with $150 million.
by John Berkowitz on Mar 10, 2009 8:35 PM PDT up reply actions
The powers that be...
…will have to come up with something.
Washington Husky Football-1991 National Champions
They won't do anything till they raise the full $300 million
$150 million won’t get the bowl done.
by John Berkowitz on Mar 12, 2009 2:00 AM PDT up reply actions
Is Naming Rights included in our deal?
And how much are we looking at for naming rights? Not that I am in favor of Starbucks Stadium over Husky Stadium, but maybe this is an alternative route we need to consider. Oregon State had to sell naming rights for then-Parker Stadium. Is this something that has even been discussed? Yet I think if King County gets ahold of this they are going to invest into Husky Stadium and KeyArena.
Why has the state of Washington grown weiry in regards to funding sports? Could it be what they projected for both Quest and Safeco in terms of revenue is still in the red? You better believe it. I’ve said it a thousand times. Pro sports don’t bring in out-of-state revenue. You don’t see a lot of Bronco, Raider, Chief, 49er, Cowboy, Patriot, or Dolphin fans coming in from out of state. Most of your Bronco, Raider, Chief, 49er, Cowboy, Patriot, and Dolphin fans are local and want to see their team play the hometown team. On the other hand the University of Washington rakes in over 25,000 out of state fans per game. Times that by the total amount of home football games played at Husky Stadium and we have a significant profit. Now the overwhelming majority of fans streaming into Husky Stadium are in a higher tax bracket. What does this imply? These high tax bracket fans will need a hotel room, they will dine out, and will require transportation. And let’s not forget that King County is a huge tourist trap.
Safeco and Quest do not generate out of state revenue, but Husky Stadium brings it in by the boat load.
All I saw was purple
Naming rights
Rutgers is trying to get $2 million a year for 15-30 years.
Minnesota received $35 million for 25 years from TCF bank.
You would think a higher profile program like UW could raise more than Rutgers or Minnesota.
by John Berkowitz on Mar 11, 2009 5:28 PM PDT up reply actions
The Bank...
…is getting a million a year. Husky Stadium should get at least 2 million a year.
Washington Husky Football-1991 National Champions
I'm sure there going to...
…do everything they can to secure state funding. If and when the point comes where they’re not able to we better push forward with an alternative. The lower bowl would be my first priority. Next would be the Football Facility. If it has to be phased in over 10 years then so be it.
Washington Husky Football-1991 National Champions
I emailed Nathan...
…he seemed more upbeat, he said he might even stop by and post on John’s board! He also said he’s trying to decide if the south side would be OK to have the tailgate. He’s concerned that it’ll be too torn up by the construction.
Washington Husky Football-1991 National Champions
Nathan
Nathan is a great guy.
I think he will come back and contribute now and then.
He just got tired of having to write and cover the negative.
It isn’t like he got paid so putting energy in a direction where he catually does get compensated like his biz is not a bad thing.
I really enjoyed his writing...
…I hope he gets back into it a bit.
Washington Husky Football-1991 National Champions
Jobs
My wife works for a construction company who will likely have to lay off workers this year. She’ll still have a job unless the owner decides to close the Seattle office, a possibility, but not likely. What I want to say is that we have some insider info on the construction industry in the Puget Sound area and it is beginning to look rather bleak. An additional 7000 to 10,000 jobs here, right now, would allow many of the contractors to maintain work crews that they would otherwise be laying off. This is a huge impact on the State.
Keeping these people employed means they are not on the unemployment rolls. Either the State assists in paying these people via the jobs these projects can provide, or the State can pay for these people with unemployment benefits. If 10,000 families go on unemployment, there is no discretionary spending available to stimulate the economy. Everyone in the State loses.
If these families have jobs, they continue to have the ability to spend on items other than necessities. This allows other businesses to maintain their employment levels and would retard the downward economic spiral and at the very least reduce the number of unemployed in the State. It is unconscionable and extremely short sighted of the politicians in this State to ignore what this number of jobs will do for the economy. Funny how it is the Democrats now in power, you know, the “Party of the People,” who seem to be turning their backs on the common Joe and Jane of the State! Time for a change, maybe?
You should write the Governor your legislators and the King County Council
For some reason they don’t seem to get the positive impact projects like this will have on the community at a very difficult time.
Once again I can’t think of a single project of this size that would have a 50% private contribution like Husky stadium and Key Arena would.
Think about it….would you create 10,000 jobs at half price or would you create them at full price?
Our Governor has her head up her butt. She doesn’t get basic economics.
What if a private entity promised half the money for 520 and the Viaduct?
Would it be in the best interest of the public to pass that up?
by John Berkowitz on Mar 12, 2009 11:16 AM PDT reply actions
What if a private entity promised half the money for 520 and the Viaduct?
Would it be in the best interest of the public to pass that up?
Not a good comparison John. The Viaduct & 520 are infrastructure projects that benefit all of us, not just in the city or the county but the entire state and Pacific NW.
The Husky Stadium and Key Arena projects are also worthy because of the immediate economic boost to the construction industry, but they are not as important as vital infrastructure as those transportation projects.
Of course they aren't as important
But getting $325 million in private funding for $600 million is a pretty good deal for tax payers.
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