Musings on another beach day
by John Berkowitz on Dec 10, 2009 11:50 PM PST
Email
PrintI decided to write a few lines today while pool side over here in Maui. Can't believe the timing we have had on this trip since it seems the entire Northern half of the country is getting pummeled by snow and low temps. A guy from Tillamook sat next to me yesterday and said it was under ten degrees at the coast...yikes!
So enough about the sun...lets talk a little about recruiting. Looks like our coaches have got to the point where they are being extremely picky in how they are going to fill up the rest of the class. They don't even have a recruiting weekend scheduled again until mid January.
Washington currently has 26 officially on the books at this time with room for probably no more than 3-4 more. OL Michael Criste is not one of these 26 according to Scout. That doesn't mean that he won't eventually be in the class it just means that UW is waiting on a couple of other kids before deciding on him. Same can be said for MLB Garret Gilliland.
The kids UW are waiting on right now are all highly rated playmakers, MLB Hayes Pullard, MLB VJ Fehoko, DE Josh Shirley, DT Kirifi Taula, CB Demetrious Wright are the major names who come to mind.
It doesn't really matter who is coaching at UW...whoever is signed by Christmas in a non transition year is who they usually end up with. January is usually a Plan B phase for Washington unless there is a five star in state that is waiting to sign. That isn't the case this season.
Currently the class is rated #1 in the Pac 10 and #8 in the nation which is incredible. It will be intersting to see how UW fills this class.
Do you remember Nathan Rhodes?
Nathan was a five star offensive line recruit out of Bakersfield who never played a single down for Washington because of congenital back problems. He declined surgery but still earned a medical scholarship at Washington. He was never very close to the program but had a part time job with the athletic department as a security job while as as a student at UW.
Our hearts go out to him tonight because his young child passed away after complications from a rare form of cancer. He was treated at St Jude's in Memphis which was started by a hero of mine named Danny Thomas.
65 comments
|
0 recs |
Do you like this story?
Comments
Upswing at Washington
We’ve got a stellar class coming in if it closed right now. But I think some of the guys still out on the fence are going to seriously consider Sark, Holt, and UDub.
Why anybody would commit to Ucla is baffling. Is it the degree? Is it the ability to stay close to home, even though USC passed on you? What’s the fuss about Ucla? Neuheisel is going to become a hot seater very soon if he can’t produce more results on the field and Norm Chow has been shown to be mortal afterall.
Sark, Holt, and UDub is becoming a hot commodity FAST. I think it’s important that kids look beyond the 2000 decade for better results. We are the NW Jewel and are quickly again becoming that juggernaut program that we had grown accustomed to.
I have one thing to say to the above mentioned. Sark and Holt are young coaches, who want to have a lengthy successful coaching career. Mess up the job at Washington and they may not get another shot. These coaches know extremely well how important getting the program back to where it belongs- that is fighting w/ USC for the Pac 10 crown annually. Sark and Holt won’t rest until we are back in Pasadena on New Year’s Day. Washington is on the way up, not on the way down like other programs. And I have a hunch many of the recruits who’ve commited to us already this season sees the upswing of Washington. Many other programs are on the way down. At Washington it can only get better, not worse.
I Bark for Sark! WOOF!!!
P.S. my sincere condolences go out to the Nathan Rhodes family.
All I saw was purple
upswing
or whatever you want to call it. Been following the Huskies football since 1949. 1991 was special but games were usually over in the first quarter. Most of the years were more thin than thick. But this year was a rejuvenation beyond our wildest dreams a year ago.
You can look at the recruiting class for this year, already ranked number eight, and more excitement to come and see there is something special going on here.
I also think there is a very good chance the coaching staff will hold together, Sark and Holt, for the long term. They now have University support which sadly worked against us in past years. Upswing definitely, special beyond special.
GO DAWGS.
James L. Wingard
I think we have a real good shot with MLB Hayes Pullard, MLB VJ Fehoko, DE Josh Shirley, DT Kirifi Taula, but I think Demetrius Wright is going to SC.
Fehoko is I think is going to go to UW, he would have committed if not for his brothers and parents wanting him to take his other visits to Utah and Texas Tech.
Josh Shirley, the longer he’s out there uncommitted I think the better our chance.
Taula I like our chances. Really wish he visited during the WSU or Cal game because I think that would’ve sealed the deal.
Pullard, I think we’ve made up a lot of ground, but I think we may be behind SC, UCLA and ND.
Overall, very impressed with Sark and the coaching staff and the kids they’ve been able to recruit. There’s some balance there, would like to have a CB for depth, but maybe one of the commits like Taz Stevenson will end up there.
ND in Limbo
Why are kids still considering Notre Dame? Currently they are in transition w/ a new head coach and probably an entirely new coaching staff. The appeal of Notre Dame is something else and I understand that.
I think Notre Dame lacks vision. Weis begain recruiting California, Hawaii, and Texas because they lost their strangle-hold on Illinois, Pennsylvania, and Ohio. With Kelly coming in it appears the Domers are going to begin recruiting the Midwest again or at lest make an attempt at it. I think ND is in no-man’s land right now. They’ve sort of lost their happy hunting ground. Sure they can recruit nation-wide, but you always have to have that gold mine niche and that is what is wrong with ND right now- they lost that gold mine recruiting niche. Weis was scrambling anywhere and everywhere to bring in recruits. He should’ve concentrated on the Big 3 (Illinois, Pennslyania, and Ohio)
Anybody who commits to Notre Dame I applaud you for academic purposes, but your football playing days are going to be run thru the ringer. The upswing of a program has to be a major factor. USC is down, Ucla is a mess, Notre Dame is in transition- but Washington is on the upswing!
Go Dawgs! WOOF!!!
All I saw was purple
Watch out for Notre Dame
Brian Kelly is the real deal, and unfortunately for the rest of college football, Notre Dame is going to quickly return to their winning ways. Kelly has proven that he can take over below average programs and turn them into a winner rather quickly. Winning at both Central Michigan and Cinncinnati is a pretty big accomplishment. As much as I don’t like Notre Dame, they hired a winner.
For the record, Kelly really screwed the pooch during the interview process. It’s one thing to say you aren’t looking to find another job, but it’s pretty low to lie directly to your players telling them you are staying and then turn around and leave.
My heart goes out to the Rhodes family. I see a lot doing air ambulance flights, but the toughest flights are always when you have a sick child on board. The Rhodes family will be in our prayers.
"Legends are made on the shores of Lake Washington"
"BOW DOWN TO WASHINGTON"
Sadly, I agree
When you think about football powers, Cincinnati certainly doesn’t come to mind. In the last 5 years they have hired 2 head coaches, and now they are looking for a third one. Sounds like a team in a downward spiral, except their is moving up faster than Boise State. Donatanio has Mich State in a bowl game and Kelly has his (former) team ranked #3. No rep Cincinnati?
If this guy can do that well at Cincy, what can he do at ND? Certainly more than untested coaches like Bob Davey and the great Charlie Weis. And I’m sure he will bring more energy to the job than Ty Willingham, formerly a semi-successful coach.
I’m not a ND fan either (to put it mildly), but how can this guy do worse than he did at Cincy with Touchdown Jesus on his side?
A big thing working against Cincinnati is poor facilities and a small stadium. They are also well behind traditional powers like Ohio State, Penn State, Michigan, Notre Dame and others in recruiting their region. Until they can bring in a good coach that isn’t a ladder-climber, they’re going to remain a stepping-stone location instead of an established power.
Yeah, they'll always be number 2 to Ohio State to recruits in that region.
Even if facilities were even, they’ll never have the pull that OSU does.
Sadly, I disagree Lear
“Kelly has proven that he can take over below average programs and turn them into a winner rather quickly”
Umm … Lear … it’s Cincinnati dude. They play ball in the Big Easy. Not too difficult to win in the Big Easy. RichRod was winning everything in the Big Easy at W.Virginia. He goes to Michigan and can’t get out of his own way- RichRod in a real football league? He looks average to me. Kelly looked good going against Big Easy opponents, but when he goes to a programt that plays the big boys- look out!
I think the hiring of Brian Kelly is another “drop of the ball”. Notre Dame is stuck in their old ways. To win in this college football climate you have to transcend the program. You have to revolutionize it. You can’t just say you’re going to outwork folks. You have to bring in talent. But w/ the 85 scholarship limit rule, the competition has become extremely competittive. Kids that use to line up for Michigan, USC, Notre Dame, Texas, Nebraska, Miami, Penn State, Washington, and Oklahoma are visiting the Oregons and Boise States and some are even commiting to the ducks and broncs.
It’s too competitve Lear for Kelly to survive on “outwork” alone. He has to sell his Domer program to kids eager to buy and to be quite honest with you, kids aren’t lining up to play for the Irish these days, especially defensive kids. To turn the Luck of the Irish around, the program will need to be transformed into something that is up to speed. Under Weis, the Irish didn’t look any different then when Davie or Willingham were there. I see Kelly fired within 5 years.
All I saw was purple
This sounds oddly familiar
I recall having the same discussion about Urban Meyer. Sorry Crazi, but you are thinking with your heart again. You don’t like Kelly because he runs a spread offense. Here’s a big surprise for you, Kelly is a DEFENSIVE coach, he previously worked as a defensive coordinator.
Your logic needs serious work. Where was Cinncinnati before Kelly got there? Ya they play in the Big Easy, but they use to lose in the Big Easy, now they win in the Big Easy. He went 34-6 at a school that isn’t a football school. Stop thinking with your heart, start thinking with your brain, and you’ll see this is a good hire that will be successful.
"Legends are made on the shores of Lake Washington"
"BOW DOWN TO WASHINGTON"
I haven’t watched Cincinnati play all season, so I no nothing of Kelly’s offense. Is it spread or pro? I wouldn’t be able to tell you.
There’s more to it then the Xs and Os Lear, trust me. If it were just about the Xs and Os, don’t you think Charlie Weis woud’ve been able to bring in No.1 recruiting classes in year after year? I mean he does sport 3 Superbowl rings. You have to look at the bigger picture Lear.
ND is not getting the best players for one reason. The best players in the country want the fast track to the NFL’s millions, they don’t want to be bothered with high academic standards. Would you if you were a 5 star athlete? I think you consider your options carefully. I think you go to a school where you can polish your football skills, where you are in the spotlight, take easy courses, and prepare yourself for life in the NFL. A lot of kids actually have this train of thought Lear.
See the big picture and you’ll understand. Kelly might be a damn fine coach, but like I said, will he be able to transcend the program? I think high academic standards are going to get in Kelly’s way- just like they got in Weis’, Willingham’s, and Davies’ way. You can’t be both, because the best kids aren’t buying it.
All I saw was purple
Make up your mind already
First you tell me that Kelly won’t make it because he hasn’t proven anything, now your telling me Kelly could be a good coach but the school can’t get the best athletes. Which is it? Is he a good coach or not??
Don’t worry about ND, they might not be able to get the great athlete that can’t count to ten, but they can get plenty of very good athletes. Ever since Holtz retired, ND has been average for one reason, they hire average coaches.
Bob Davie = average coach with no prior head coaching experience
Ty Willingham = average coach
Charile Weis = average coach with no prior head coaching experience
The most important thing Kelly said in his opening press conference, you have to play with the guys you have, you can’t trade them, there is no waiver wire, you have to develop the players you have. That my friend, is the correct answer. Yes recruiting is important, but it’s also the most over used excuse EVER!! Great coaches make an average player into a good player, they make a good player into a great player. No excuses.
"Legends are made on the shores of Lake Washington"
"BOW DOWN TO WASHINGTON"
Define "average"
If I am not mistaken Weis has 3 superbowl rings. That doesn’t sound aveage to me.
I couldn’t tell you if Kelly is a good coach or not- that’s really not the point. I think many top shelf coaches would/could fail at Notre Dame. I mean look at how many top shelf coaches have been contacted and have turned down the Irish? That tells you something about the school right there.
My point is can Kelly, by himself as head coach, transcend the program. To win at ND, a coach has to bring in top talent just like anywhere else in the country. Is Kelly going to sell what kids want? To be more precise, is Kelly going to be able to sell what the best football players in the country want? Don’t fool yourself, a football team is only as good as the players. The biggest, baddest, football team will win almost every time as long as they execute the gameplan.
I’m not sure Kelly can sell to the best kids and I see “high academic standards” again ruining the career of another fine football coach.
All I saw was purple
If I am not mistaken Weis has 3 superbowl rings. That doesn’t sound aveage to me.
As an assistant coach – pretty big jump from assistant to head coach. Weis proved he was an average head coach.
Again it's not the point
Read the part about transcending the program and the relationship between high academic standards and football factories.
That is my argument why I think every football coach ND hires will end with a “buy out”. The problem is the institution. You can’t have high academic standards and be a football factory at the same time. I think ND has shown us that for the last decade. They can’t co-exist. I dont’ know Brian Kelly. I don’t know if he is a good, average, or bad coach. But I do know the problem is not in the football program. The problem is the ideology of high academic standards at the same time being labled a footbal factory.
More on Weis: If Notre Dame had “average” academic standards, do you think the Irish could bring in top shelf talent? With all the resources available to the football team? Notre Dame would be in the same successful categories of USC, Texas, and Florida. But they won’t budge on the high academic standards. You guys are delusional if you think one guy can come in here and turn it all around. Hell fellas, Urban Meyer turned it down twice, Bob Stoops once. Both Meyer and Stoops want nothing to do with “high academic standards”, because a coach can’t compete for the same recruits.
All I saw was purple
You are simply ignoring reality when you claim that Notre Dame’s academic standards are preventing it from recruiting top shelf talent. They have been bringing in highly rated recruiting classes every year under Weis. They did so under Davie as well, and even one year under Ty.
You can talk all you want about “transcending the program”, but I simply pointed out your argument that Weis wasn’t an “average” coach was highly flawed – try to stay on topic here.
Stoops declined Notre Dame because why would he leave Oklahoma? That’s a lateral move at best. Meyer originally declined Notre Dame because at Florida, he wouldn’t have to travel nearly as much to recruit, something that was important to him and his wife in raising their children. Meyer didn’t jump this time because, like Stoops, why would he leave Florida? It’s a lateral move at best.
If more people bought into it like you
Then surely the recruiting services would be a multi billon dollar enterprise. Oh wait … it is. A lot of fans have really bought into what the talking heads have to say.
I like to use the eyeball test. When ND lines up with USC they look smaller and slower the the mighty Trojans. Still think Scout and Rivals know talent? They are selling subscriptions my friend, come back to reality…
All I saw was purple
I willingly admit that these services aren’t the be-all, end-all in terms of judging talent.
But they get it right more often than they get it wrong. And just because they’ve rated the Notre Dame classes high and yet the Irish haven’t played up to those rankings doesn’t mean the evaluations were wrong – it could also mean Weis and his staff did a poor job developing the kids they got.
Go look at those past recruiting lists and tell me that the services were way off – Jimmy Clausen, Michael Floyd, Golden Tate – those were all 5-star Notre Dame recruits.
No, I think the problem wasn’t so much that the recruiting services were wrong – it’s more that Weis was an offensive coach, and that’s where much of the talent he recruited went. He needed more stud defensive players.
Or was it ND couldn't get them?
Is it Weis who couln’t land the defensive guys or Notre Dame who couldn’t get them in. I’ve heard that Notre Dame couldn’t get the best defensive kids qualified, but had very little problems getting offensive kids qualified. It must’ve sucked for Weis to visit many top shelf defensive kids, take one look at his academic progress and discover he could no longer recruit them.
It’s the academics kikd not the coach. Notre Dame couldn’t get defensive kids to commit under Willingham or Weis. Their is a perception out there that offensive minded football players are better students then defensive minded football players. I’d sure like to see some statistics to back that up. Yet I tend to agree with it. Offensively you have to be a thinker, you have to respond, and you have to create. Defensively the mindset is attack. Not a lot of thinking going on on defense, just react and attack stuff.
So if defensive players are considered not as gifted in the classroom then could you assume that Notre Dame would have an issue trying to get defensive kids in to qualify? I think the writing is on the wall kirkd.
All I saw was purple
Let’s see, what makes more sense:
Offensive players are higher academic achievers than defensive players and thus have an easier time getting into Notre Dame
or:
Charlie Weis, an offensive-minded coach, was better at developing his offensive players than his defensive players
Weis brought in plenty of highly-rated defensive players too. He just didn’t have as much of a clue what to do with them.
I guess I'll take the high road on this debate
How about we just come to terms that both theories are correct. Weis was an offensive juggernaut as a offensive coordinator- that I do know. I can’t tell you for sure if he developed many of his offensive personnel though. QBs and WRs looked fundamentally sound, but I can’t speak intellegently about the development of the RBs, TEs, and members of the O line.
In return you have to look at that ND defense and see “average” players mostly across the board. The D linemen didn’t have above average physical tools to begin with. Top flight programs are not recruiting short and stubby D linemen. They are going after the top 10% of D linemen recruits. LBs were okay, I’ll give you that. But the secondary was slow, very slow in reaction time, closing speed, and lacked decent coverage skills. I’ve heard numerous reports that ND continues to struggle to get defensive kids qualified. This isn’t something that I am making up. Hell check out what ND’s NBC broadcasting team are saying about the Irish.
Lets put this to rest and come to the conclusion that both theories are considered correct. Do we agree that Weis lacked the ability to develop players and that ND could not get many of the top shelf defensive recruits qualified? I’ll meet you half way…
All I saw was purple
If it’s so easy to win at Cincinnati in the Big East, then why didn’t Mark D’Antonio win a whole lot more than he did? His winning percentage in 3 years at Cincinnati: .514. Kelly in 3 years at Cincinnati: .850.
Want more? Here’s what the guy that preceded Kelly at Central Michigan did in 4 seasons: .261. Here’s what Kelly did: .543.
Kelly has won big at every place he’s coached.
Zero in league competition
Right now their is no competeition in the Big East. Rich Rodriguez left for Michigan. Name another top coach or program in the Big East right now? Simply no competition. And I’ll go on the record and say that both the Mountain West and WAC are better football leagues right now then the Big East.
Again I don’t know if Kelly is a good, average, or a bad coach. But it sure is easy to look good when you have no league competition, maybe this was a bumper crop season for the Bearcats during a down time in the Big East. But I am standing firm. ND will continue to struggle with who precides over the football program until they come to terms with what they are and what they strive to be. Are they going to be a football factory or petition for the Ivy League. You can’t have both and actually it’s just about the biggest oxymoron concept in college football. A football factory w/ high academic standards. WOW!
All I saw was purple
You completely ignored my point – if it’s so easy to win in the Big East at Cincinnati, how come Mark D’Antonio didn’t do so? RichRod moving to Michigan is only the difference of 1 win per year on Cincinnati’s schedule – you need a better excuse than that…
Rutgers has had a letdown. Pitt has had better teams in the past. W. Virginia under RichRod was a pretty awesome display for Big East eyes. Louisville has put some top 10 teams together.
Count them kirkd… Rutgers, Pitt, W. Virginia, Louisville all have had down years lately. That would be 4 loses for the Bearcats. But do we really know? Again maybe this is a bumper crop season for the Bearcats in a down year for the Big East- who knows. But I am NOT going to hold my breath that Brian Kelly is the mosaic that ND has been waiting for to get the Irish back to the promised land. Cincinnati? Really???
All I saw was purple
Wait, Pitt? Clear proof you pull stuff out of your butt without bothering to check that it’s actually true.
Here’s how Pitt did while D’Antonio was at Cincinnati:
2004: 8-4
2005: 5-6
2006: 6-6
Here’s how Pitt did while Kelly was at Cincinnati:
2007: 5-7
2008: 9-4
2009: 9-3
Same thing with Rutgers – while D’Antonio was at Cincinnati:
2004: 4-7
2005: 7-5
2006: 11-2
And while Kelly was at Cincinnati:
2007: 8-5
2008: 8-5
2009: 8-4
I’ll give you West Virginia and Louisville dropping off. But West Virginia hasn’t fallen very far – they’re off 2 games from RichRod’s peak, which is still resulting in 9-3 seasons for Stewart.
Look, nobody knows if Kelly is going to succeed at Notre Dame. But he has an impressive resume – he not only has a great record, he’s done far better in his two FBS stops than the coaches that preceded him, indicating that he hasn’t simply been riding coat-tails and coasting at strong programs. He’s improved Central Michigan and Cincinnati significantly.
I want you to know how much I like this current argument!!
I’m glad that I’m not the only one who thinks arguments should use logic, stats, and other measurable quantities when making said arguments.
Way to back up your arguments with good solid facts!!!
"Legends are made on the shores of Lake Washington"
"BOW DOWN TO WASHINGTON"
[Reality Check]
Fellas, we are still talking about the Big East. Are the football programs in the Big East really that impressive? And if you domintate in the Big East is is a feather in your resume cap?
You guys can throw out misguided stats, ill-conceived facts, and other forms of unusable measureable quantities. I am the one using logic and most of my argument stems from the eyeball test.
I don’t know if Brian Kelly is going to be much different in terms of success at Notre Dame. Every swinging pencil pusher and every jock strap reporter thought ND finally had come out of the darkness when Tyrone Willingham finished his first season at ND with a 9-3 record and won “coach of the year”. Then everybody thought Charlie Weis was the mosiac when he just about beat USC in his first season. How soon we forget. I’d argue that both Willingham and Weis were better qualified to lead the fighting Irish then Kelly at this particular time.
Willingham had Stanford rolling in a tough Pac 10 conference, who got the trees to the Rose Bowl- that only happens maybe twice in a century. Weis on the other hand came from the Bill Bellicheck school of coaching. Both coaches had pretty good resumes. One came from the perennial power from the Pac 10, the other came from dynasty driven NFL’s Patriots.
Please stop and say it … The Big East!
Now in college basketball that would be an impressive resume, VERY impressive. But we are talking about Big East football. Again I consider the Mountain West and the WAC the Big East equals or superiors. Big East football is horrible! It use to be good, but that was before Miami, Va Tech, and Boston College joined the ACC.
Say it again … The Big East! Really?
All I saw was purple
ND
A lot of kids choose ND because of the school not the coach. The education and legacy is great. The network of alumni across the country is great.
While ND has been down since Lou Holtz left it is still a very attractive option. Now that they have Kelly things will turn around immediately.
I agree on recruiting the Big Three and I think Kelly will also turn that around. Academics will continue to be a problem. ND is not an easy school…no bonehead courses.
by John Berkowitz on Dec 11, 2009 2:57 PM PST via mobile up reply actions
Choosing ND and NOT choosing ND
I think Notre Dame is a fine academic institution. But can they compete for elite status in college football w/ the demand of high academic standards? You are right John that a lot of kids choose ND because of the school, the legacy, and the network of alumni. With that you will see a lot of “open doors”. But my question is, are those kids who are choosing ND for those reasons considered 4 and 5 star athletes? I say the majority of them are not.
And there you have it and that is exactly what you are seeing on the football field. A lot of football players that want the educational experience, but lack pro football skills. Notre Dame is not getting kids that have the potential to be pro football players. I’ll retract, ND is not getting enough of them, a few here and there doesn’t quite cut it. Florida, Texas, and USC are loaded across the board with players who have pro football skills.
Why isn’t ND getting the best kids? Because many of the best kids who aspire to be pro football players want the fast track to the NFL’s millions. They don’t want to be burdened with high academic standards. They sign with Florida, Texas, or USC where they don’t have a problem qualifying, take easier course work, leave early for the pros, where they are only 12 credits short from a degree.
Fact is ND is not selling what kids want anymore, at least not the best 4 and 5 star kids in the land. I actually respect Notre Dame, I love the history that surrounds the program and the campus in general. But is Kelly going to be able to transcend the program enough to persuade the best prep recruits in the country to commit? In today’s college football, you can’t just be an expert in Xs and Os- Wies was and he failed. You can’t just say you’re going to “outwork” the opponent. This is a player’s game, a young man’s game, it’s all about the players. The best group of athletes on the field will usually win if they execute the gameplan. That is why you see Florida, Texas, and USC continously at the top. They have the best athletes across the board. It’s all about the fast track to the money ladies and gentlemen, high academic standards and football factorys can’t co-exist, and ND is too stubborn to let go. Either become a football factory or join the Ivy League, you can’t have your cake and eat it to.
All I saw was purple
I’ll give you this crazi – you never bother to let facts get in the way of your arguments.
But my question is, are those kids who are choosing ND for those reasons considered 4 and 5 star athletes? I say the majority of them are not
Well, you can certainly argue with the rating systems they used, but Rivals and Scout thought Charlie got a whole lot of 4 and 5 star guys:
By Rivals rankings:
2010: 9 4-star guys (out of 18 total) – currently ranked 12th in the country
2009: 9 4-star guys, 1 5-star guy (out of 18 total) – ranked 21st in the country
2008: 16 4-star guys, 3 5-star guys (out of 23 total) – ranked 2nd in the country
2007: 12 4-star guys, 1 5-star guy (out of 18 total) – ranked 8th in the country
2006: 10 4-star guys, 2 5-star guys (out of 28 total) – ranked 8th in the country
By Scout.com rankings:
2010: 8 4-star guys (out of 18 total) – currently ranked 15th in the country
2009: 7 4-star guys, 2 5-star guys (out of 18 total) – ranked 23rd in the country
2008: 14 4-star guys, 4 5-star guys (out of 23 total) – ranked 2nd in the country
2007: 11 4-star guys, 1 5-star guy (out of 18 total) – ranked 11th in the country
2006: 12 4-star guys, 3 5-star guys (out of 28 total) – ranked 5th in the country
I find it laughable that you don’t think Notre Dame isn’t getting highly talented players. The problem isn’t that they can’t get the players – it’s that the coaches aren’t doing enough with them.
Here we go again...
What is both Scout and Rivals top priority to us? They want to sell subscriptions to the consumer. They are in it to turn a profit. Are they a reliable source? Do college football coaches use their databases? I say they have their own databases and use Scout and Rival for mere communication purposes.
Who are the folks who operate Scout and Rivals? Do they know talent? And if they do know talent, why aren’t they bigtime football coaches? The fact is they don’t know talent anymore then you or I. Sure you can tell who the best players are by attending a camp in the summer- but how do they determine if player A is better then player B, or C, or D, ext…
I’ve said it in the past and I guess I have to say it again, their is a theory out there that I happen to aggree with. If Notre Dame is interested in a kid then he is perceived as a legit bigtime player. That would mean his stars increase with that theory.
Example:
USC offers a scholarship to player A
Washington State offers a scholarship to player B
Just by looking at the two schools, which player do you “suppose” is the better recruit?
100% would say player A right? Well kirkd Notre Dame is still in that same circle of eliteness. If Notre Dame offers a kid a scholarship then that player must be pretty damn good.
Do you really believe what Scout and Rivals think? If these guys are the experts they thought they were, then Notre Dame’s athletes would look in comparison to USC’s , Texas’, and Florida’s. Line up the Irish vs. the Trojans, Longhorns, and Gators my friend and tell me if the Irish roster is really 4 and 5 star material. Their DL is short and stubby, the LBs look small and fragile, the D backs are slow, and the O line looks fat and out of shape. According to the numbers you provided us above from Scouts and Rivals- Notre Dame sure as hell doesn’t look like a top flight program to me from a physical standpoint. You can’t coach heigth. Domers defense is laughable and the Irish D line is short and stubby. Short and stubby are not the characteristics you look for in D linemen.
ND is not on the same field with Florida, Texas, and USC. It’s not about coaching, it’s about the players and the better players you have the more chances you have to succeed. Do me a favor and discontinue your subscriptions and you might just learn something. Run pro or spread, doesn’t really matter which as long as you have the players to dominate.
All I saw was purple
Look crazi, those services don’t bump up a kid’s rating just because Notre Dame or USC offers him – they bump him up when Notre Dame, USC, Texas and Florida all offer him.
Go back and look at the kids Notre Dame signed, and look at what other schools offered those kids. Those 4 and 5 star designations look legit in the vast majority of cases when you see who else offered them. Notre Dame wasn’t competing with Indiana, Cincinnati, Kent State and Kentucky for most of their recruits – they were competing with USC, Florida, Ohio State & Michigan.
Do me a favor and discontinue your subscriptions and you might just learn something.
Oh, how cute – the guy who ignores facts trying to tell me how to learn something.
Facts and Truth don't exist in the Crazi world.
"Legends are made on the shores of Lake Washington"
"BOW DOWN TO WASHINGTON"
Why waste my time . . .
you don’t listen, no matter who it is, you just don’t listen.
"Legends are made on the shores of Lake Washington"
"BOW DOWN TO WASHINGTON"
Eyeball test
If Notre Dame was competing with USC, Florida, Ohio State, and Michigan then surely the team on the field would look the same physically. Have you watched a USC/Notre Dame game kirkd? Really have you?
It’s apples and oranges kirkd, it’s men against boys. USC’s team is so much bigger, so much taller, so much stronger, and so much faster then Notre Dame. Are you kidding that ND has the same talent as you mentioned? USC, Florida, and Texas have huge beastly talent, particularly on the defense. Notre Dame has none of that. ND might be competing with USC, Florida, Ohio State, and Michigan for recruits, but ND is losing those competitions. So what does that tell you?
Line up USC defensive front with Notre Dame’s defensive front and tell me Notre Dame is getting some of the best defensive talent in the country.
P.S. the “Do me a favor” thing was out of frustration and I apologize for the comment. I’m really tired of going around the table on this. Let’s just come to the conclusion that ND has had issues with getting some of the top shelf defensive talent qualified and that Weis did a piss poor job developing his players. I’ll meet you half way on this.
All I saw was purple
You are making the mistake of assuming that kids come on to campus fully formed physically. I think you know that’s not true. And besides, you can talk “eyeball test” all you want – that doesn’t change the fact that Notre Dame brought in highly sought after players on both sides of the ball, kids that other elite programs were after.
I have no idea why you seem to assume that Weis was a good coach and he just couldn’t get good enough kids – the evidence suggests the opposite, that he was an average coach who didn’t develop some highly talented defensive players. No shocker there given that Weis is an offensive coach.
Well then kirkd a lot of people are making the same mistake as I am in assuming kids have came on to the campus fully formed physically. I stand corrected … you are the “expert” everybody else including folks on ESPN’s broadcasting network are misinformed idiots.
Look at the shere size of athletes kirkd for goodness sake. Notre Dame defensive players do not stand nearly as tall as any of the elite programs- NOT EVEN CLOSE! It’s varsity vs. JV fella. Yet according to you, many of these stellar recruits were saught after by USC, Florida, and Texas. Good heavens! I’m willing to bet that Carroll, Meyer, and Brown were extatic to allow these saught after recruits to slip to ND.
I’m out, tried to take the high road and meet you half way. But you are the expert and the rest of us with the same logic that I am presenting to you are the idiots.
Hope you’re right kirkd, let’s see how all this plays out. But my hunch tells me that Kelly is done in four years. I’ll get back to you on this…
All I saw was purple
I operate on facts. You operate on gut feelings, which are sometimes true, sometimes not.
Here’s some facts for you – defensive players Weis signed and who else offered them:
CB Darrin Walls – Florida, Michigan, Penn State, Pittsburgh, W. Virginia
DT Ian Williams – Florida, Auburn, Clemson, Ole Miss
DE Kapron Lewis-Moore – Michigan, Oklahoma, Texas A&M, Colorado, Oklahoma State
LB Steve Filer – Michigan, Ohio State, Illinois
S Dan McCarthy – Michigan, LSU, Ohio State, Oklahoma
DT Ethan Johnson – USC, UCLA, Michigan, Colorado, Oregon, Oregon State
S Jamoris Slaughter – Alabama, LSU, Michigan, Georgia
This is just the start. I don’t have time to go through all of his recruits, but this is just looking through the first 1.5 of his recruiting classes.
Suffice it to say, you are full of crap. Weis recruited highly sought-after defensive players that other top programs offered scholarships to. Once again, the problem wasn’t that Weis couldn’t get talented defensive players at Notre Dame, it’s that he didn’t do enough with them.
I’m done arguing with someone who refuses to deal in facts.
Somebody unplug Skynet
Now let’s just turn the entire world over to robots and software. Am I communicating with a robot, computer, or skynet?
I watch the games and I can tell you that ND does not have terminator-type talent on that defense. But hey your full of facts, stats, and all sorts of personal attacks aren’t you. I tried to take the high road, but you kept just digging for more.
I have not the time nor the energy to respond anymore to a person you thinks like a robot. But we’ll see what we’ll see won’t we skynet? The very first time Kelly comes under fire I am going to remind you of our little argument, which I tried to take the high road.
“No fate, but what we make”
All I saw was purple
Pull your head out of your backside already!!!
ND is suffering the same exact problem that we’ve had. Ever since DJ was fired, we haven’t been able to develop talent. Why does Boise State and Oregon State do so very good, which such average recruiting classes?? THEY DEVELOP THEIR PLAYERS. They make average players into good players, good players into great players, get the drift?
You can have the #1 recruiting class each and every year, but if you don’t develop them, all you have is a bunch of good HIGH SCHOOL players.
"Legends are made on the shores of Lake Washington"
"BOW DOWN TO WASHINGTON"
Then if the Boise State coaches are so damn gifted of developing players, tell me why do BSU coaches who leave get fired at their next job?
Dirk Kuetter? Fired!
Dan Hawkins? Soon to be fired!
Chris Peterson as of now is a smart guy. He knows he has job security at Boise State. Why is Oregon State and Boise State playing well? They run an offensive system that you have to prepare for in one week and they recruit specific kids who will compliment the system.
I think Oregon State does a really good job coaching up their kids, Mike Riley is an expert in that department.
But ND does not run a systematic offense and it’s easy to prepare for. When you don’t see a certain type of offense routinely, then you have to put in more time to prepare for it. The problem with Oregon State’s fly offense is that you only have one week to prepare it. A lot of stuff to figure out in 6 days.
Are we done bashing crazi? I’d like to get onto a new topic if that’s alright with you fellas. I never said you had to agree with me Lear and kirkd, I’m completely okay with it. I think it’s okay to disgree on certain topics. You guys like stats, facts, and spread sheets. I use the eyeball test and I shoot from the hip, I don’t waste my time with researching stuff for the blogosphere. Now if I were a paid sports writer, then you’d see me carefully putting credible information out there. But I don’t and that’s all part of the craziness. Agree or disagree I could careless, but I would appriciate it if you would cut down on the insults. I shoot from the hip because that’s more entertaining then masterminding a rebuttal full of useless information. Relax and have fun.
By the way who really gives a [bleep] about the domers anyway? Let’s get back to Husky football…
All I saw was purple
Good, then we all agree . . .
that you don’t support your arguments – “I don’t waste my time with researching stuff”
that you don’t put out credible information – “then you’d see me carefully putting credible information out there”
Thank you, that just about sums it all up. Finally, all three of us agree!!
"Legends are made on the shores of Lake Washington"
"BOW DOWN TO WASHINGTON"
Correct!
I don’t support anything I write about. I shoot from the hip and you have the ability to agree or disagree. I could careless where you stand. I do this for the fun of it. If everybody researched their topics, would it be fun? I try to spice things up and have fun.
Lear you should know me by now. I don’t always write the popular opinion, i.e. wearing gold for home games. I write reacationary stuff- does this make me a bad guy? I’m here to talk Husky football and have a little fun. Some guys are just making too big a deal about my rants and that is all it is. I don’t support anything I write about. I shoot from the hip and write how I see it. Never said I had insider knowledge of anything.
All I saw was purple
Minny C.
Crazi, any chance you remember Minny C.?? You probably weren’t around before he got banned from the blog, but writing stuff just to get a reaction doesn’t go over very well on the blog, and Minny C. could do a pretty good job of play devils advocate.
Nobody enjoy’s BS, we are here to chat about the real life Husky football team, that plays real games on a real field. We aren’t here for your entertainment, so keep the BS to yourself and stick to the real world.
"Legends are made on the shores of Lake Washington"
"BOW DOWN TO WASHINGTON"
Keep ignoring the facts when they don’t support your argument. That’s how you operate.
I proved to you that Weis recruited highly sought after defensive players. It has nothing to do with computers and everything to do with programs like USC, Michigan, Ohio State, Florida, Oklahoma, LSU and more also pursuing those kids. But hey, what do they know about player evaluation, right? It’s not like those are highly successful programs or anything.
I know you’re not so blind as to realize that kids don’t continue to get bigger and stronger and better when they enter college. If Notre Dame’s defensive players looked small to you, it’s because they weren’t developed fully. Put those kids in USC’s program (and many of them were recruited by USC) and they’d look better.
But you don’t care about facts. That’s fine – enjoy your version of the world.
kirkd, for the record, I honestly respect your opinions. I think you put out a lot of credible information and I can appreciate that. However I just log on and shoot from the hip. I’m not in this to win over friends, I don’t make my living doing what I do in the blogoshere. I love college football, particularly the Washington Huskies (always have … always will).
But for the life of me I can’t see what all the fuss is about the hiring of Brian Kelly. ND has shown to be quite incompetent in the direction of their football program since Lou Hotz left. They’ve been consistent with us, who have made lousy coaching hires after another. Is Kelly going to be the right guy? Who really knows, yet ND has shown that either they’ve made lousy coaching decisions or the academic standards are too high for a major college football program. That’s for each fan to decide.
And yes, when it comes to college football I don’t care too much about facts. I love the passion and excitement within the game. I watch it for those particular reasons. I watch and follow the sport for the true love of the game.
I’m tired of bickering and I don’t give a rip about ND. Just know this about my postings. I tend to be creative, I tend write reactionary stuff. But none of it is researched, nor will any of it stand on itself. I see the games and write what I feel. Am I being Jim Mooresque? I write to make folks think, who cares if I am right or wrong- it’s all about loving the sport. You are in it way too deep if what I write bothers you. Enjoy life and have some fun! We’re both Husky fans and we both have to agree that Husky football is on the way back. That is what is really important isn’t it? We’re cool…
All I saw was purple
"services" sounds impressive
But those “services” are in the business to sell subscriptions. It’s a business kirkd, not a government entity like it sounds.
All I saw was purple
these threads are starting once again to look like Dawgmans during the
waning days of Ty I the Terrible. Johnb, think you need to geta policeman here too. Starting to see the personal attacks.
Sad News About Rhodes...
…may God bless him and his family and friends.
Washington Husky Football-Undefeated 1991 National Champions 12-0!
Our 2 DTs are shown as “Soft commits” I hope we can hold on to those two and add a DL or two to complete our class. Sounds like JC DT Tonga is out – does anyone know why? I thought he could provide instant depth to our DL.
DL
Lagafuiana is visiting Hawaii this coming weekend as a courtesy to the hometown school. Most are 99 percent sure he will be a Husky.
Potoae has always wanted to visit USC and get a taste of the process. He is another guy that is a 99 percenter in UW’s favor. His family and friends all want him to go to UW. Can’t blame him for wanting take a trip.
Tonga is a one year player who could make an impact. One question is can he qualify? A bigger question may be his previous scrapes with the law. Word is the coaches haven’t talked to him for a few weeks.
by John Berkowitz on Dec 11, 2009 2:45 PM PST via mobile up reply actions
BIG AND FAST RUNNING BACK
like Lebron needed immediately. Kind of back who can always get you one yard.
Last one we had was Hugh McElhenny. Cooper may be the one.
Cooper
Cooper is a big time back. Pete Carroll has commented off the record that they made a mistake not getting on him earlier.
Not sure if Callier will be a TB or a CB but his film is just awesome.
Mel Davis is a big back who committed early that is highly regarded. Hopefully he can qualify.
by John Berkowitz on Dec 11, 2009 3:04 PM PST via mobile up reply actions
Mel Davis
That’s the big back this year, like JB said.
Washington Husky Football-Undefeated 1991 National Champions 12-0!
Don’t get too infatuated with Davis – sounds like he has some work to do to get qualified, and the last time I saw a video interview with him where he was asked about Washington, he wasn’t terribly enthusiastic about his commitment.
Maybe things have changed, and maybe he’ll qualify, but I’m approaching his commitment as dessert – it’s great if it happens, but it’s a bonus.
This is one reason why it is so especially important for a coaching staff to continue evaluating recruits. I think our past coaches found themselves being in love with certain recruits, where they backed off or couldn’t qualify. That left them taking more and more plan B guys.
As a coaching staff you can never be too comfortable with who has commited. It’s nice to always have a back up ready to commit (Heaps/Montana comes to mind). If you settle as a coaching staff, things can change weekly and daily. You have to continue to recruit until the dead period. Many kids are locked in by this time of year, it’s just a few that have yet to commit 100% and those are the fellas you try to keep. But if for some reason it doesn’t work out- have your back up ready to go.
I want Melvin Davis to be a Dawg. I think he has tremendous potential. But if he is going to be an academic casaulty then what are we going to get from his services? And maybe Sark is looking at in that way as well. When you recruit, it’s best to get kids that have the desire to eventually get on the field and they have to compete to get there. I think it’s safe to say that we really don’t need anymore kids that pursue the dream of becoming tackling dummies in order to get a free education. We need players and players that want to compete for starting positions, wins, Rose Bowls, and national championships. Endlessly have to recruit and find kids that want to PLAY!
All I saw was purple
purple, I think you forgot
Corey Dillon as last big back we had that could get you a yard, more like 4. Also Greg Lewis, Joe Steele
COREY
was a JC. They recruited him as a defensive back. It I remember he only stayed one year.
Ran for 200 yards fist half agin San Jose.
How do I blog on this blog?
Would love to tell the story of Dave Williams and Donnie Moore. Moore rushed for 200 yards agin OHIO STATE in COLUMBUS in the first half.
Comments For This Post Are Closed
Secondary Sidebar
User Tools
FanPosts
Community blog posts and discussion.
Certain photos copyright © 2012 by Associated Press or Getty Images. Any commercial use or distribution without the express written consent of Associated Press and Getty Images is strictly prohibited.
