Kibbles and Bits
by John Berkowitz on Oct 21, 2009 4:16 PM PDT
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PrintI was listening to the Softy show today and heard that Washington has made an offer to Gonzaga to play a series of three games at Key Arena in Seattle where they would split the gate generated by the event. Mark Few is said to be mulling over the offer. "Now the ball is in their court so to speak," said Richard Kilwien, UW's associate athletic director of athletic communications.
"We are all motivated to get a decision soon," Washington spokesman Richard Kilwein said. "Both schools have a strong following in Seattle and the finances associated with playing a game at KeyArena give both schools a fairly substantial financial guarantee -- which offsets the costs of losing a home game in any particular year.
Gonzaga of course does not want to play UW in Seattle unless there is a return game in Spokane. Washington doesn't want to play in Spokane. The neutral court idea is intruiging but since it is in Seattle I am not sure if Few will be receptive. If he doesn't take the offer it will make Gonzaga and Few look bad which is the whole idea behind the offer anyway. These two programs don't like each other very much.
Jeremiah Masoli has been cleared to play on Saturday for the Oregon Ducks as long as he wears a knee brace. He has looked good in practice this week so chances are Kelly will start him.
Phil Steele who is one of the best college football prognosticators out there has picked Washington to beat Oregon 26-23. Phil seems to be subscribing to the same theory I am.
We’ll side with the Huskies with the uncertainty at the QB spot for the Ducks. Washington outgained LSU, while also beating USC and upsetting Arizona at home this year. The Husky homefield advantage is becoming prevalent and look for them to take advantage versus a Ducks squad that had a misleading win against UCLA benefitting from 3 TD’s in the first 5 minutes of the second half on a KR, IR TD and a short drive after a fumble.
Here is the coverage map showing that the UW-Oregon game will be shown to 19 percent of the country, essentially the entire West Coast plus Alaska and Hawaii. you can also get the game for free on your computer at ESPN 360.
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Massoli
This is going to be a hard hitting physical game. Massoli is going to get hit a lot in this game. It’s pretty tough playing on a bad wheel. Do they just shoot it up with pain killer when it gets sore? GO DAWGS!!
Washington Husky Football-Undefeated 1991 National Champions 12-0!
I was considering writing a post on the UW/Gonzaga story
But ultimately I am confident nothing will come of it. Gonzaga won’t wan’t to play 3 games against UW in Seattle, because no matter how you package it UW comes out on top of that deal, and Gonzaga (rightfully) believes they’re past the point where they need to cater to big conference foes.
The only way this series gets revived is if they can agree on a home-and-home arrangement.
Cassino
You are the basketball writer around here so feel free…also email me so I can set you up with admin functions during the season.
by John Berkowitz on Oct 21, 2009 7:54 PM PDT up reply actions
This strikes me as odd
When has a scheduling agreement ever been negotiated in public? Is this a PR battle or a pressure play? Either way it comes off as a pissing contest.
Why not just meet man to man without an audience, and hammer out a deal? Either side can handle a home-and-home, and an annual match will be mutually beneficial in the long run. Not only will your loyal fans love it, but it’ll generate all kinds of new interest (and revenue).
Stop acting like children and decide to settle your differences on the court.
Gonzaga.....
is hungry for money, like almost everyone else. (I know, having a kid there. Ouch! My wallet hurts!) And while they will certainly want to get our Huskies on their home® court, they will also be tempted to take this deal if their many thousands of alumns now in the Seattle area, who the School is always wanting donations from, support seeing their team play at Key Arena. Seems me that this is why the negotiations went public, to put alumni and other public pressures on the Zags to take this deal.
Being able to see their team play, without having to drive or try to fly into Spokane in the winter, will be very welcome to all west-side Zag fans.
To be completely honest
I’m not entirely sure UW wants this to happen, because you’re right, if they did they’d negotiate a deal that works for both schools. However, the public wants this game to happen and right now the perception is that Romar has been ducking Gonzaga since it ended, and now that the UW has put something on the table they have something to point to and say “we’re not dodging them.”
Bottom line is it’s about money, and playing the games at Key Arena is more beneficial financially to UW, which is something that Gonzaga is not going to be able to get past and will ultimately torpedo this deal. Cash is king.
Big Money for GU.....
comes from the Gonzaga students’ families and donating alumns in the Puget Sound region. That is the money consideration that is worth considering.
Help me make sense of this-
“For us, the University of Washington, which is all I’m worried about, I think it’s a great deal,”
-Scott Woodward
Vote for Butch!
by spencer peaty on Oct 21, 2009 10:18 PM PDT up reply actions
What’s to make sense? Woodward is the UW AD – why should he not be focused on what’s good for the UW?
You can't say-
“I think this is a good opportunity for everyone all-around.”
“It’s a great proposal”
“I think it’s a very fair proposal”
Then say-
For us, which is all I care about, Its a great deal! Who cares what they think?
Vote for Butch!
by spencer peaty on Oct 21, 2009 10:34 PM PDT up reply actions
Bottom line
We don’t care about what is best for Gonzaga.
Nothing wrong with that.
by John Berkowitz on Oct 21, 2009 10:39 PM PDT up reply actions
Then don't claim that.
Its so easy to see right through this “proposal”. Either way UW comes out on top. I’m torn because even though I would love to see this game come back, I don’t want to see Gonzaga give in under these circumstances.
Vote for Butch!
by spencer peaty on Oct 21, 2009 10:48 PM PDT up reply actions
“Give in”? You seriously think that Key Arena wouldn’t be pretty much evenly distributed every year between Zag and Dawg fans? What is the downside here, that Gonzaga would need to bus 5 hours west?
This is hardly some “unfair” proposal. It would generate quite a bit more money for both schools than a home and home.
Look at it this way:
Imagine there was no Key Arena. Gonzaga goes to UW and says we have a proposal to play the next 3 years at Spokane Arena. It will be more $ for both of us! Would you like to see UW accept that, or say, no thanks, we want a home-and-home?
Vote for Butch!
by spencer peaty on Oct 21, 2009 11:30 PM PDT up reply actions
As a fan, of course I want the home and home. But I’m a fan, not the AD trying to pay the bills.
And it’s not exactly an equivalent comparison; there are benefits to Gonzaga playing in Seattle that the UW wouldn’t not have in playing in Spokane:
- There are far more Gonzaga alumni in Seattle than UW alumni in Spokane; playing in Seattle provides a nice opportunity for Gonzaga to hold alumni get-togethers and fund-raisers, much like WSU has done with their games at Qwest
- The Seattle area is a far more fertile recruiting area than Spokane – it provides a built-in excuse on a yearly basis for Zag coaches to recruit the area
From a rational perspective, this is a good proposal for both schools; from an emotional perspective, I can totally appreciate why Zag fans wouldn’t like it.
So you're assuming (incorrectly) that Spokane Arena and Key Arena are virtually the same then?
Key Arena seats 5000 more people than Spokane Arena. Spokane Arena is barely bigger than Hec Ed. Splitting that income would be the equivalent of UW taking a loss for a game. With the economy as it is there’s no way the athletic department would give up that revenue when they could schedule a home game against some other opponent and make more.
Furthermore, a game played at Key Arena will have no trouble selling all of its seats. There are fans of both teams on this side of the mountains. Not so as much the case on the east side, where there are just plain fewer people in general.
Oh, and who the hell wants to go to Eastern Washington in the winter?
you guys don't get the issue
Gonzaga takes pride in its home games. They sell out their arena every game from just season tickets and students, you can’t even get a single game ticket.
Yes, they could take a little more money and go play them in Seattle every year, but their program isn’t in dire need of more money. They can schedule a ton of big teams at home and on the road, and they sell out every home game. They want this game because they want the right to play UW at home every other year.
Vote for Butch!
by spencer peaty on Oct 22, 2009 12:03 AM PDT up reply actions
They Can...
…just say no if they’re so inclined. Gonzaga is the one playing in the smaller conference with way less exposure.
Washington Husky Football-Undefeated 1991 National Champions 12-0!
Less exposure?
Looks like some solid convo going on here but I gotta stop you here dawgfan22. Gonzaga already plays a top shelf nonconference schedule which lends well to a whole lot of exposure. This is a little taste of what we are looking at this season:
http://www.slipperstillfits.com/2009/9/4/1015693/gonzaga-to-play-twelve-regular
That post doesn’t include the Michigan State game which was picked up by ESPN or the Illinois and Duke games which will be featured on CBS. So in total that is 15 national games for Gonzaga this season with the option for more come conference tournament (on ESPN) and the NCAA Tournament.
Aside from the truly ‘elite’ teams with titles, no team gets more national exposure than Gonzaga.
The Slipper Still Fits - SB Nation's home for the Gonzaga Bulldogs!
Formerly BuffZag
Bol Kong for President!
Gonzaga has to play a top shelf OOC schedule
as the WCC conference schedule diminishes their national perception. Rightly or wrongly, the PAC 10 is still a much more prestigious conference and thus for Gonzaga to get a high seed in tourney time they need to be recognized by playing tougher opponents. Not very often does the WCC get more than 1 team in the dance.
I doubt this proposal and the arguments back and forth are really about schedules, but more about $$. Both schools would make $$ in this proposal. To sell out the Kennel is an accomplishment like HecEd being slightly more than half full. There are more season ticket holders before students tickets at UW than seats in the Kennel.
I think zags should be proud of what their school has accomplished, and if the other programs on campus can be supported without the extra free cash, then fine but ADs are being forced to diving for dollars lately and will continue to do so in the future.
Gonzaga actually doesn't need UW
They have no problem putting together a top notch OOC schedule. They can also schedule their own big games at Key Arena without any help from UW.
Seattle U went a couple decades not playing UW at the height of their BB success. They didn’t need to play UW either.
This game is for the fans pure and simple.
by John Berkowitz on Oct 22, 2009 9:14 AM PDT up reply actions
Oh, we get that part just fine. We just don’t care. We don’t need to schedule Gonzaga – the Pac-10 is a good enough conference that we don’t need a bunch of upper level OOC opponents on the schedule to have an adequate RPI.
If we’re going to schedule Gonzaga, why not take advantage of the unique opportunity they provide to maximize revenues by playing the games in Key Arena and splitting the tickets and gate?
Gonzaga is perfectly within their rights to decline – if they aren’t hurting for money, then I can certainly understand their preference to make it a home and home.
"We don’t need to schedule Gonzaga"
Of course you don’t. You can play whoever you want.
The only problem is it makes UW look childish because they broke off the series after losing 8 of the last 10 games they played, and now they don’t really care about bringing the game back. Just money.
Vote for Butch!
by spencer peaty on Oct 22, 2009 2:32 PM PDT up reply actions
We all know why UW broke off the series don't we?
It wasn’t the eight out of ten…it was the Cameron Dollar incident.
by John Berkowitz on Oct 22, 2009 2:44 PM PDT up reply actions
Oh please – you’d love to think that Romar is that petulant, that his gripe must be childish and not have some serious, deep-seated reasoning behind it. You’re a Coug, so of course you’re going to think the worst of Romar and the UW, but can you at least acknowledge the possibility that Romar has had a legitimate gripe with Few?
Is there nothing else about Romar and how he lives his life and how he’s handled things that might suggest he’s a principled person?
C’mon Nuss…you know better than that.
by John Berkowitz on Oct 22, 2009 6:13 PM PDT up reply actions
I actually don't feel that way about Romar
In all of my dealings with him, he’s been a standup guy. As much as I’d love to dislike him, I don’t think there’s really any reason to. Sometimes the histrionics of his players become tiresome, but he’s an excellent recruiter and does a fine job when he surrounds himself with the right coaches.
I just don’t see how backing out because that program called you out on an NCAA rule violation is anything other than childish. There’s no way his staff doesn’t do the exact same thing if the situation had been reversed, so how can he have a legitimate gripe with Few over that?
I just don’t see how backing out because that program called you out on an NCAA rule violation is anything other than childish.
Is this the extent of the problem that Romar has with Few, or does it go deeper than that?
There’s no way his staff doesn’t do the exact same thing if the situation had been reversed, so how can he have a legitimate gripe with Few over that?
I guess we’ll have to disagree on this one – I’ve heard from many people that this was a situation that in Romar’s experience is typically handled privately between head coaches. So I do not agree that Romar would’ve done the exact same thing.
You might very well be right
I’m not familiar enough with the situation to know. As I said below, there’s probably a lot of stuff here we don’t know about, and I’m certainly not Few’s biggest fan, so there certainly is that possibility.
There is a lot more to it...
A lot of bad blood there….we could go into it but it is history these days anyway.
by John Berkowitz on Oct 22, 2009 8:11 PM PDT up reply actions
So, if I follow correctly,
UW breaks rules trying to recruit a Gonzaga player. UW loses 8 of 10 to Gonzaga. UW then breaks off the series with Gonzaga. Later, UW makes one-sided proposal to renew series with Gonzaga. Childish, indeed.
What does Gonzaga want? Just to play the games home-and-home.
Vote for Butch!
by spencer peaty on Oct 22, 2009 3:06 PM PDT up reply actions
I've said numerous times here and at cougcenter why
But why is it this is the only way UW will play Gonzaga is in Seattle? Name one reason besides money.
Vote for Butch!
by spencer peaty on Oct 22, 2009 3:47 PM PDT up reply actions
Sorry I should have clarified
Explain, in a rational matter that makes sense, how making a deal that is most financially beneficial to both teams is one sided.
They can’t, because they don’t want to admit it.
We admit that this deal is a political move by Woodward. He wants to be able to say to UW fans asking for a series with Gonzaga that he tried, and that he put forth a good offer. He did. If Gonzaga doesn’t need the extra money and chooses to decline the offer because they prefer the games being home and home on the campus courts (as their AD has expressed), then fine.
And for Woodward, it’s a win-win – if the series isn’t accepted by Gonzaga, he moves on and finds other opponents. If he wants a marquee matchup, he can get that; if he prefers patsies to keep more games in Hec Ed, he can do that. If Gonzaga accepts, he gets a marquee matchup that pleases fans AND adds a lot of extra revenue to the program.
And that’s all he should really worry about.
As a Husky fan, would it be nice to play Gonzaga again and get some more shots at them? Sure, but I’m not going to sweat it if it doesn’t happen.
Looking out for the best interests of the University he works for is something I admire about Woodward.
It's not that he's looking out for the best interests of the university that's the issue
It’s the way he so publicly and arrogantly goes about it. It just really, really rubs people the wrong way.
But, like you said, he really only has to worry about his constituency, and it seems like he’s got you all pretty happy with how he does things. I’m sure he could give a crap what the rest of us think of him.
Besides, it gives us more fodder, which in some twisted way I’m actually grateful for …
Gives us stuff to write about
And make fun of. Because we get tired of making fun of ourselves, you know?
ROFL
I understand….I think bone will be great.
by John Berkowitz on Oct 22, 2009 9:31 PM PDT up reply actions
Cassino
Do you know how much $$$ it costs to rent out Key Arena. Judging by the condition its in and how little use it must get now I can’t imagine it being extreme but I’m trying to run the numbers to figure out what it would be because every UW fan seems to think by playing at Key, each school would make a truckload of money.
Hopefully someone can throw out a ballpark
The Slipper Still Fits - SB Nation's home for the Gonzaga Bulldogs!
Formerly BuffZag
Bol Kong for President!
It's all about the promoter
How much he thinks he can make, and how much of that he’s willing to guarantee to the teams so that his promoting company makes a healthy profit. The rental fee is just one piece of that.
That said, I’ll bet renting that place doesn’t cost as much as it once did …
Yep, hard to imagine that Key Arena is charging too much for rent – they are scrambling to fill dates.
assuming the promoter is a "he"
But with regards to the situation I just want to clarify a couple things:
1. I agree Woodward did the best move possible to make money (if GU accepted) and at the same time make UW look good.
2. I just really want this series to resume and I am disappointed that it will not, because of UW’s offer that was only intended to benefit UW. It was not intended to restart the series.
Vote for Butch!
by spencer peaty on Oct 22, 2009 9:42 PM PDT up reply actions
I thought of that as I was writing
But then it just gets so awkward with the whole he/she thing. And if you use the non-gender-specific “they,” it just is bad writing. So, I made what might be an erroneous assumption for the sake of clarity.
Nuss,
in everything I have read from you, (a lot) that is the first time I have ever seen you write anything gender specific when it should not have been. But honestly this whole sequence of comments confused me and I didn’t think it was you. Not that it’s a big deal or anything.
Vote for Butch!
by spencer peaty on Oct 22, 2009 9:47 PM PDT up reply actions
…but I’m trying to run the numbers to figure out what it would be because every UW fan seems to think by playing at Key, each school would make a truckload of money.
Start with the fact that Key Arena seats 17,000 for basketball, as compared to 10,000 at Hec Ed and what, 6,500 at the Kennel? And Spokane Arena seats only 12,000 for basketball.
Playing the series exclusively at Key Arena significantly boosts the potential ticket sales, more than doubling what could be made in comparison to a Hec Ed/Kennel home and home, and adding an average of 2,500 seats per year as compared to a rotating Key Arena/Spokane Arena arrangement.
As I said on my site, though
Those 2,500 seats at $20 a pop only adds $25,000 in profit per school. (Before the promoters’ cut.)
That just seems like an awfully small amount to simply dismiss a KeyArena/Spokane Arena possibility.
Since Gonzaga was breaking the same rule
It was a little chickenshit.
by John Berkowitz on Oct 22, 2009 3:54 PM PDT up reply actions
Because unlike in most cases where coaches call each other and tell the other one to knock it off, Few decided to turn in Dollar rather than call Romar as is the typical courtesy.
Maybe I'm not as familiar with the "etiquette" of recruiting as I should be
I don’t know the whole story (and I doubt any of you do, either). Perhaps this wasn’t the first time? I dunno. Just seems like it’s a little weird to get mad at someone for catching you in the middle of a blatant violation and reporting it … as if it’s somehow their fault.
Look, I’m no Few apologist. Based off of personal dealings as a member of the media, I think he’s an arrogant jerk who is at best an above average basketball coach. But I have a hard time seeing how this is somehow their fault.
Just seems like it’s a little weird to get mad at someone for catching you in the middle of a blatant violation and reporting it … as if it’s somehow their fault.
Perhaps because it’s a common one? And is it possible that Romar is correct in thinking that this is typically handled between head coaches?
Calling the UW “childish” about the Zag/Husky series being discontinued is essentially saying the Romar is childish. I think there’s a lot of evidence to suggest he’s a stand-up guy and that he deserves some benefit of the doubt. I don’t know the details. I have read comments from insiders that would know the details that suggest Romar has legitimate reason for his bitterness towards Few.
As a Husky, I give Romar the benefit of the doubt. As a Cougar, in this instance you aren’t.
I guess if it's me, I'd rather go beat their brains in on the court
But I guess that’s easy for me to say.
I don't think this series is something Gonzaga will approve
That said, it isn’t a bad deal for them. The only reason they won’t approve it is that they think they can get a deal that is MORE beneficial financially to them. It’s not like UW is trying to screw them or anything.
at what point
do Ducks special teams and defensive touchdowns go from being a fluke to being what happens when you have a good defense and special teams?
Under winter skies
We stand glorious
And with Oden on our side
We are victorious
The point seems to be.........
that UCLA really screwed up. It is unlikely to be have a game handed over so easy, regardless of how good a team is, and your Ducks are very good, two games in a row.
Ucla
They have a very weak offense and a stout defense. The offense gave up a pick 6 and the special teams allowed a return for a touchdown. I guess that’s the question you always asks, is ucla that bad or is oregon that good. Or maybe some of both.
Washington Husky Football-Undefeated 1991 National Champions 12-0!
We had to guys behind Costa
that are redshirting. We did everything to just preserve the victory and get out unscathed.
The Husky homefield advantage is becoming prevalent
Sounds like the fans need to show and do our part.
BRING THE NOISE
GO DAWGS!!!
"Legends are made on the shores of Lake Washington"
"BOW DOWN TO WASHINGTON"
We are missing the main point of this story
I wont get the game!! They think people in Philly care about Penn State vs Michigan…idiots.
How does ESPN 360 work? I will have to go the internet route on Saturday.
Any help will be greatly appreciate!
"If he doesn't take the offer it will make Gonzaga and Few look bad"
Well, that’s not what has happened, and if that’s what it was designed for, then it’s a pretty epic fail.
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